NZ Election 2020

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Networkn
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#2548637 24-Aug-2020 11:38

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=12358858

A reasonable collection of opinions on how well the Government has handled quarantine and border issues.

freitasm

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#2548641 24-Aug-2020 11:41

GV27:

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12358882

Apparently we're having a coup? Damn, I always miss the Outlook invites for these things.

To me, it sounds like some Brexiter that want to spread bullshit around the world through FUD. Just look at the other articles from the same author...

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networkn

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#2548647 24-Aug-2020 11:42

I think people are getting restless, but we are a long way from a coup :)

Fred99

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#2548653 24-Aug-2020 11:51

freitasm:

To me, it sounds like some Brexiter that want to spread bullsh*t around the world through FUD. Just look at the other articles from the same author...

I just googled her. One of the first articles that came up calls her a "rent a gob".

The British do have a way with words.

Rikkitic

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#2548654 24-Aug-2020 11:51

GV27:

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12358882

Apparently we're having a coup? Damn, I always miss the Outlook invites for these things.

This smacks of pure envy. The rabid right is just jealous that our progressive government is doing so much better than anyone else! The thought of that is driving them mad.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

freitasm

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#2548662 24-Aug-2020 11:56

Rikkitic:

GV27:

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12358882

Apparently we're having a coup? Damn, I always miss the Outlook invites for these things.

This smacks of pure envy. The rabid right is just jealous that our progressive government is doing so much better than anyone else! The thought of that is driving them mad.

FTA: "Sunday Telegraph columnist Madeline Grant has poured scorn on New Zealand's elimination strategy and the means taken to achieve our low rates of Covid-19 in a scathing article that warns the United Kingdom not to follow suit. Dubbing New Zealand's eradication strategy as a "cautionary tale", the article, which was published on Sunday in the United Kingdom, slates our Government's response as little more than vapid political virtue-signalling."

And yet, from here it doesn't look like our civil liberties were curbed but if you look at the UK, where this author lives, they had temporary restrictions of movement and economy but it didn't work for them. So I'd say she's jealous and writes some bullshit to her expectant readers that will point out how the "communist government of New Zealand had done terrible things"...

Not unlike Trump saying we have a terrible surge, while ignoring his backyard.

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Fred99

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#2548674 24-Aug-2020 12:09

The horse has long bolted in the UK (and the US). It's theoretically possible that with 100% compliance then a "level 4" equivalent nationwide lockdown for a month could eliminate it, but practically impossible as they could never get close to 100% compliance.

UK GDP has taken a far harder hit than NZ - from Covid and the economic consequences. I wonder if some of these foreigners look at NZ as only a "place to go on holiday", thus a country entirely dependant on tourism, thus when we kill foreign tourism as inevitable with border closures, we'll all starve to death. If you work in the foreign tourism business, then clearly you're likely to be in very deep sh*t indeed. You would have been anyway regardless of our border policies. It's happened everywhere. Hawaii economy for example has been slaughtered with "Great Depression" level unemployment. The impact on GDP of loss of tourist revenue is manageable.

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#2548676 24-Aug-2020 12:12

Fred99:

The horse has long bolted in the UK (and the US). It's theoretically possible that with 100% compliance then a "level 4" equivalent nationwide lockdown for a month could eliminate it, but practically impossible as they could never get close to 100% compliance.

UK GDP has taken a far harder hit than NZ - from Covid and the economic consequences. I wonder if some of these foreigners look at NZ as only a "place to go on holiday", thus a country entirely dependant on tourism, thus when we kill foreign tourism as inevitable with border closures, we'll all starve to death. If you work in the foreign tourism business, then clearly you're likely to be in very deep sh*t indeed. You would have been anyway regardless of our border policies. It's happened everywhere. Hawaii economy for example has been slaughtered with "Great Depression" level unemployment. The impact on GDP of loss of tourist revenue is manageable.

And yet those people try to make us look bad - possibly as a distraction to their internal problems.

Shame on NZ Herald publishing something with such a clickbait headline. It should make it clear from the start this is an opinion piece that's not based on reality.

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Varkk

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#2548699 24-Aug-2020 13:19

GV27:

Brownlee was a weird choice to start with and I'm not sure why they're sticking with him given the rise of Dr Shane Reti.

After Dr Reti's performances in the media over the weekend (Series of interviews where he is calm, measured and knowledgeable on the subject matter, no histrionics or dog-whistling of conspiracy theories) I have heard grumblings on Twitter about why choose Collins when they have this guy in the caucus?

dejadeadnz

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#2548707 24-Aug-2020 13:28

Rikkitic:

This smacks of pure envy. The rabid right is just jealous that our progressive government is doing so much better than anyone else! The thought of that is driving them mad.

Better than anyone else? Better than Taiwan? Give me a break. When you see the challenges that they are up against and compare, this government wouldn't even deserve to shine Tsai's government's boots.

link

Just endlessly repeating an exaggeration doesn't change its status. And they are managing better public health outcomes against the background significantly greater demographic, geopolitical, population, and environmental challenges all the while sustaining an economy that was still predicted to grow during the June 2020 quarter. NZ has done (relatively) well but we mustn't forget that this is the age of Xi, Trump, Johnson, Bolsonaro, Modi, and Putin. These are the leaders of some of the worst COVID-19 affect countries and/or people who did the most to allow COVID to ravage the earth. When you compare anyone's leadership to their abject lack thereof, lack of morals, and concern for evidence, and sheer moral depravity, of course we look good. But liberal democracies need to aim a lot higher and be prepared to constantly challenge themselves. Because COVID won't magically let up.

We've achieved our outcomes via methods that are likely not sustainable long term (simply because our population lacks the discipline and other-regardedness required to maintain the ongoing sacrifices). If NZ loses control, our outcomes could be pretty terrible given our relatively low ratio of ICU facilities. This is not a time for endless facile and borderline imbecilic cheerleading that's contrary to evidence.

dejadeadnz

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#2548709 24-Aug-2020 13:39

Taiwan has a population of 23.8 million. They have around 29% of our COVID cases. Deaths are also orders of magnitude lower. Now of course just plain straight-line comparisons of these kinds of stats aren't always helpful. But if people are going to (rightly) mock Trump and the right wing morons for diversionary tactics and making up crap, a sober analysis of where we can learn to potentially do better is also required as a matter of simply consistency, in addition to economic and public health necessity.

At some point people need to decide whether we want an informed and intelligent discussion or whether some of us just want to turn a discussion into a "I love X politician" blog for themselves.

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Rikkitic

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#2548710 24-Aug-2020 13:43

dejadeadnz:

This is not a time for endless facile and borderline imbecilic cheerleading that's contrary to evidence.

Get a life man. We are doing better than most, certainly those who would paint us as a hopeless hell-hole. Pointing that out is hardly facile imbecilic cheerleading.

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Rikkitic

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#2548716 24-Aug-2020 13:51

dejadeadnz:

Taiwan has a population of 23.8 million. They have around 29% of our COVID cases. Deaths are also orders of magnitude lower. Now of course just plain straight-line comparisons of these kinds of stats aren't always helpful. But if people are going to (rightly) mock Trump and the right wing morons for diversionary tactics and making up crap, a sober analysis of where we can learn to potentially do better is also required as a matter of simply consistency, in addition to economic and public health necessity.

At some point people need to decide whether we want an informed and intelligent discussion or whether some of us just want to turn a discussion into a "I love X politician" blog for themselves.

Taiwan is exceptional. I'm not sure anyone knows exactly why. There are many variables with the Covid 19 virus that are still not well-understood. Perhaps there is a genetic difference with the virus strain there, or the local population. I don't know. I am not a geneticist. But there are many things that could account for this. Without knowing, holding Taiwan up as an example of anything is no better than loving a particular politician.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

dejadeadnz

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#2548717 24-Aug-2020 13:51

Rikkitic:

Get a life man. We are doing better than most, certainly those who would paint us as a hopeless hell-hole. Pointing that out is hardly facile imbecilic cheerleading.

By all means point out the fact that we are doing better than most. But you've repeatedly asserted on here that our COVID response is the "best" despite me repeatedly reminding you the existence of Taiwan. "Best" has an established meaning under ordinary understandings of the English language. Facts matter, people.

GV27

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#2548725 24-Aug-2020 14:00

Rikkitic:

Get a life man. We are doing better than most, certainly those who would paint us as a hopeless hell-hole. Pointing that out is hardly facile imbecilic cheerleading.

Equally it's not a defense for poor process or confusion around whether something is or isn't happening at the border, like testing like some people seem to think it is.

We mocked Stephen Joyce for thinking Eminemesque was 'pretty legal' and it's equally dismissive to think the virus is going to ease up at the border if we decide to be chill about our testing and other controls because 'it could be worse'. I don't think the virus takes that into account.

Ardern faces a Clayton's choice today - either continue with a lockdown that more and more Aucklanders are just not buying into and flaunting on weekends, or abandon the 'hard and early' conservative approach and wing it on the hopes that the cluster is contained. I don't envy her, and I don't expect National to commend her when she eventually does the right thing.

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