Our PM Jacinda Ardern (and the government)

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Networkn
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#2985811 21-Oct-2022 12:17

gzt: Mallard's treatment of the protesters at parliament was trollish. Trespassing Peters who had no role in the protests at all was just silly. That all said, Mallard as a cabinet minister was as competent as any National minister, and National makes similar appointments. For that reason this does not really bother me. It's usual for both parties.

You and I clearly have wildly varying interpretations of the word competent.

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#2985847 21-Oct-2022 13:27

I don't think so.

surfisup1000

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#2985889 21-Oct-2022 15:57

networkn:

Ding Dong the witch is dead. Mallard exits Parliament today, hopefully never to return and soon to be forgotten.

Unsurprisingly his trespassing of Winston Peters was termed “unreasonable” and “irrational” by the High Court, the same way I'd pretty much describe his entire term as speaker. Especially the way he treated Protesters.

Mallard's mistake with the protestors was that he should have cleared them off as soon as they started being a nuisance to others trying to go about their business.

I have no problem with them protesting, but do it somewhere that you don't bother others.

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#2985894 21-Oct-2022 16:17

You're right, but the problem with a protest like that is no one will notice it and it will have no effect - although you could argue the Parliament occupation didn't really affect/change anything either.

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#2986364 22-Oct-2022 22:36

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/bruce-cotterill-five-years-on-and-govt-still-digging-same-hole/JANZBJFDDWCS4FJWHYTHXX4KXA/

Behind a paywall. This article is so sadly true. Should be compulsory reading for all New Zealanders.

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#2986366 22-Oct-2022 22:43

I disagree, it reads like some self-righteous business owner who thinks he knows everything about everything. He's not changing my mind (or vote).

Would National fix 100% of all these problems if given half a chance?

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Technofreak

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#2986418 22-Oct-2022 23:07

quickymart:

I disagree, it reads like some self-righteous business owner who thinks he knows everything about everything. He's not changing my mind (or vote).

Would National fix 100% of all these problems if given half a chance?

I take it then that you're happy that this government has been in power 5 years and our education and health systems are going backwards at a great rate of knots while ministers are making a lot of talk without a lot of walk. Have you tried to get a doctors appointment recently? There are some parts of the country with no GP coverage at all.

Why are more people leaving New Zealand than arriving.

No, National wouldn't fix 100%, and there was not any suggestion he supported National or any other party in that opinion piece.

He said "Good government would see the existing problems get smaller as new ones emerge. Not here. The problems are just getting bigger. And the attention of government and the ministers seem to be diverted away from the real issues."

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sir1963

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#2986846 23-Oct-2022 13:17

Technofreak:

quickymart:

I disagree, it reads like some self-righteous business owner who thinks he knows everything about everything. He's not changing my mind (or vote).

Would National fix 100% of all these problems if given half a chance?

I take it then that you're happy that this government has been in power 5 years and our education and health systems are going backwards at a great rate of knots while ministers are making a lot of talk without a lot of walk. Have you tried to get a doctors appointment recently? There are some parts of the country with no GP coverage at all.

Why are more people leaving New Zealand than arriving.

No, National wouldn't fix 100%, and there was not any suggestion he supported National or any other party in that opinion piece.

He said "Good government would see the existing problems get smaller as new ones emerge. Not here. The problems are just getting bigger. And the attention of government and the ministers seem to be diverted away from the real issues."

The lack of GPs started 20 years ago

The collapse of education started then too

More people are leaving because of tall poppy syndrome, if you succeed you get bashed. And on top of the better attitude in other countries you get paid better.

Problems have momentum, its takes years/decades to stop the momentum of somethings and then years/decades to just bring them back to where they were, and only then can you see improvements.

Everyone wants it fixed today.

The average age of GPs in NZ is 50

The stress is increasing, the finance is falling, the abuse and demands from patients is increasing and the ability to seek specialist is falling so patients get pushed back to their GP, who can do nothing more.

This year the government increase GP funding by about 2%, this is in spite of them saying practice nurses deserve a 15k pay rise.

The hours of work are crap.

Why would you be a GP in NZ when you can be a GP in Australia where you ar far better off.

Its not about training more, its about being able to keep those you have trained with better pay and conditions.

Technofreak

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#2986904 23-Oct-2022 14:09

sir1963:

The lack of GPs started 20 years ago

The collapse of education started then too

More people are leaving because of tall poppy syndrome, if you succeed you get bashed. And on top of the better attitude in other countries you get paid better.

Problems have momentum, its takes years/decades to stop the momentum of somethings and then years/decades to just bring them back to where they were, and only then can you see improvements.

Everyone wants it fixed today.

The average age of GPs in NZ is 50

The stress is increasing, the finance is falling, the abuse and demands from patients is increasing and the ability to seek specialist is falling so patients get pushed back to their GP, who can do nothing more.

This year the government increase GP funding by about 2%, this is in spite of them saying practice nurses deserve a 15k pay rise.

The hours of work are crap.

Why would you be a GP in NZ when you can be a GP in Australia where you ar far better off.

Its not about training more, its about being able to keep those you have trained with better pay and conditions.

In general I agree the problems go back many years and take years to fix.

However this government hasn't acheived anything to alleviate these problems. There's plenty to choose from but here's one or two to prove the point.

Jacinda Ardern made child poverty a high priority back in 2017. Reflect on how well that has gone. Just take a look at the numbers now in emergency housing.
Kiwibuild, how did that go?
Polyetch restructure, hows that working out?
We had foreign nurses here who have not been able to get residency or have had to go back overseas and reapply to come here. We've had doctors leaving because they couldn't get residency. You'd think when our health system is in such dire straits that the government would be moving heaven and earth to keep those people already here instead of putting hurdles in the way. No wonder we have trouble attracting the right people.

I think the collapse of our education system is more to do with some of the experiments that have been carried out, the lack of focus on the basics, and the way some of the NCEA achievements can be gained.

I don't think there's been too much argument about many of the governments stated goals (their unstated goals are a different matter) it's just they've proven to be totally inept at achieving anything that is of any tangible benefit to those that need help or for tax payers in general.

Pay and condition are to a large extent dictated by our affluence. As a population we have become poorer and poorer and with a greater divide between the rich and poor. Nothing this government has done has attempted to address this. Until that happens we will continue to be the poor cousin.

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tdgeek

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#2986967 23-Oct-2022 19:16

Technofreak:

Iin general I agree the problems go back many years and take years to fix.

However this government hasn't acheived anything to alleviate these problems. There's plenty to choose from but here's one or two to prove the point.

Jacinda Ardern made child poverty a high priority back in 2017. Reflect on how well that has gone. Just take a look at the numbers now in emergency housing.
Kiwibuild, how did that go?
Polyetch restructure, hows that working out?
We had foreign nurses here who have not been able to get residency or have had to go back overseas and reapply to come here. We've had doctors leaving because they couldn't get residency. You'd think when our health system is in such dire straits that the government would be moving heaven and earth to keep those people already here instead of putting hurdles in the way. No wonder we have trouble attracting the right people.
I think the collapse of our education system is more to do with some of the experiments that have been carried out, the lack of focus on the basics, and the way some of the NCEA achievements can be gained.

I don't think there's been too much argument about many of the governments stated goals (their unstated goals are a different matter) it's just they've proven to be totally inept at achieving anything that is of any tangible benefit to those that need help or for tax payers in general.

Pay and condition are to a large extent dictated by our affluence. As a population we have become poorer and poorer and with a greater divide between the rich and poor. Nothing this government has done has attempted to address this. Until that happens we will continue to be the poor cousin.

Either these issues are caused by the current Govt, or they are systemic. Resource wise, NZ is poor. WE do fine, we do ok. But without gold, opals, silver, uranium, oil, it will always be a battle. Same old story, here are 3 things, choose 2

Technofreak

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#2987064 23-Oct-2022 22:26

We have oil and gas but this government has killed off that industry and are trying to be "world leading" with our carbon emissions and in doing so hobbling the most efficient dairy producers in the world. All of which adds up to making us poorer.

Labour is so good at "doing the right thing" all the while New Zealanders as a whole become worse off as a result. Sometimes known as cutting your nose off to spite your face.

David Lange did it with the nuclear free status. The US were prepared to privately abide by our nuclear free requirements but were not prepared to publicly state whether or not their ships were nuclear free. That wasn't good enough for David, the US had to state publicly the status of their ships before they were allowed to enter New Zealand. ANZUS got shelved which we all know about. What is less well known is our sheep farmers had to slaughter their lambs on their farms because they couldn't sell them. All the while Australian farmers were getting around $30 per lamb, very good money in those days. All because of David's arrogant attitude.

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sir1963

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#2987066 23-Oct-2022 22:48

tdgeek:

Technofreak:

Iin general I agree the problems go back many years and take years to fix.

However this government hasn't acheived anything to alleviate these problems. There's plenty to choose from but here's one or two to prove the point.

Jacinda Ardern made child poverty a high priority back in 2017. Reflect on how well that has gone. Just take a look at the numbers now in emergency housing.
Kiwibuild, how did that go?
Polyetch restructure, hows that working out?
We had foreign nurses here who have not been able to get residency or have had to go back overseas and reapply to come here. We've had doctors leaving because they couldn't get residency. You'd think when our health system is in such dire straits that the government would be moving heaven and earth to keep those people already here instead of putting hurdles in the way. No wonder we have trouble attracting the right people.
I think the collapse of our education system is more to do with some of the experiments that have been carried out, the lack of focus on the basics, and the way some of the NCEA achievements can be gained.

I don't think there's been too much argument about many of the governments stated goals (their unstated goals are a different matter) it's just they've proven to be totally inept at achieving anything that is of any tangible benefit to those that need help or for tax payers in general.

Pay and condition are to a large extent dictated by our affluence. As a population we have become poorer and poorer and with a greater divide between the rich and poor. Nothing this government has done has attempted to address this. Until that happens we will continue to be the poor cousin.

Either these issues are caused by the current Govt, or they are systemic. Resource wise, NZ is poor. WE do fine, we do ok. But without gold, opals, silver, uranium, oil, it will always be a battle. Same old story, here are 3 things, choose 2

Sir Paul Callaghan

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhCAyIllnXY

Nothing has changed in the last decade.

sir1963

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#2987073 23-Oct-2022 23:24

Technofreak:

We have oil and gas but this government has killed off that industry and are trying to be "world leading" with our carbon emissions and in doing so hobbling the most efficient dairy producers in the world. All of which adds up to making us poorer.

Labour is so good at "doing the right thing" all the while New Zealanders as a whole become worse off as a result. Sometimes known as cutting your nose off to spite your face.

David Lange did it with the nuclear free status. The US were prepared to privately abide by our nuclear free requirements but were not prepared to publicly state whether or not their ships were nuclear free. That wasn't good enough for David, the US had to state publicly the status of their ships before they were allowed to enter New Zealand. ANZUS got shelved which we all know about. What is less well known is our sheep farmers had to slaughter their lambs on their farms because they couldn't sell them. All the while Australian farmers were getting around $30 per lamb, very good money in those days. All because of David's arrogant attitude.

The USA talks free trade, it does not do free trade.

There have always been huge subsidies , handouts, trade barriers to protect US businesses/farmers.

Lange opened up other pathways for NZ, because we were publicly being David standing up to Goliath.

You should note that no government has been willing to change our stance, if it were just Lange, he is long dead.

Long term, NZ benefitted from our Nuke free stand. The USA was never going to give us better access, their farm lobby is too strong.

Our trade with the USA while large, other countries are much larger.

And yes, we should diversify away from China, try and get more trade with the EU, Africa, South America, Canada, India, Korea, Japan, Indonesia.

National has also done all the things you accuse Labour of.

National are no more our saviours than any other political party.

If we did not have those block of cheese tax cuts years ago, perhaps we would have more GPs now, more Nurses now, better education.

NZ voters are stupid, they do not think of the future or about anyone but themselves. Climate change is going to prove how stupid that is.

Technofreak

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#2987075 23-Oct-2022 23:40

Interested know what trade benefits you think our nuclear free status brought us.

New Zealand has changed its stance on requiring the US to publicly state whether or not one of their warships visiting New Zealand is nuclear. That happened in 2016 when the USS Sampson came here.

Don't get me wrong, I think our nuclear free status is good. I just didn't like the way David Lange wasn't prepared to allow the US ships to visit without a public declaration when the US had given their word they would comply but not make a public statement. I thought the US option was a pretty good compromise, but instead we paid through the nose.

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Rikkitic

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#2987092 24-Oct-2022 08:25

Either you have values and you stand up for them, or you don't.

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