Elon Musk, the man

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Forums › Politics › Elon Musk, the man

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Master Geek
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#3334200 21-Jan-2025 15:33

freitasm:

@CrazyM:

Surely not just the hand gesture (from a guy who is known for making exuberant gestures)?

Please provide video evidence.

For example, for Kamala's hand the comment I read is that it was a wave. That's a single frame capture to fit the alt-right story.

So if you are going to comment, please post videos, not single frames.

If not, I will start seeing this as disinformation and start banning people.

The video evidence is already in the thread in GZT's post. He jumps around waving, makes his speech with many fist pumps and hand gestures, including the one that offends people in this thread, says "my heart goes out to you", and on and on.

Some people read it one way, some others. My take is that it was innocent and not intended to reference anything Nazi, but opinions can vary.

Interesting that some people consider themselves to be the arbiters of truth and cannot fathom that other people might see things differently.

Kyanar

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#3334206 21-Jan-2025 15:42

CrazyM:

The video evidence is already in the thread in GZT's post. He jumps around waving, makes his speech with many fist pumps and hand gestures, including the one that offends people in this thread, says "my heart goes out to you", and on and on.

Some people read it one way, some others. My take is that it was innocent and not intended to reference anything Nazi, but opinions can vary.

Interesting that some people consider themselves to be the arbiters of truth and cannot fathom that other people might see things differently.

And as you were told, Fox deliberately cut away at just the right moment to make it appear more innocent than it was. The uncut version that Associated Press published is much more damning.

Sometimes, the way you see things is just wrong. This is one of those times for you.

Sinuation

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#3334208 21-Jan-2025 15:50

CrazyM:
freitasm:

@CrazyM:

Surely not just the hand gesture (from a guy who is known for making exuberant gestures)?

Please provide video evidence.

For example, for Kamala's hand the comment I read is that it was a wave. That's a single frame capture to fit the alt-right story.

So if you are going to comment, please post videos, not single frames.

If not, I will start seeing this as disinformation and start banning people.

The video evidence is already in the thread in GZT's post. He jumps around waving, makes his speech with many fist pumps and hand gestures, including the one that offends people in this thread, says "my heart goes out to you", and on and on.

Some people read it one way, some others. My take is that it was innocent and not intended to reference anything Nazi, but opinions can vary.

Interesting that some people consider themselves to be the arbiters of truth and cannot fathom that other people might see things differently.

This moral grandstanding is stupid. People are reacting to what they saw. They're not gonna deny what they saw just because you wanna defend Musk. Screw your take, it is divorced from reality.

It's also very interesting in your ardour for truth you ignore freitasm's request for proof that left wing candidates also somehow did the nazi salute and tried defending Musk that way.

CrazyM

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Master Geek
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#3334209 21-Jan-2025 15:52

Kyanar:

And as you were told, Fox deliberately cut away at just the right moment to make it appear more innocent than it was. The uncut version that Associated Press published is much more damning.

See referred to post here, unedited, not Fox news

https://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=48&topicid=296359&page_no=70#3334093

networkn

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#3334213 21-Jan-2025 15:59

This falls into the same category as Michael Jackson having young boys sleeping in his bed *after* it had previously garnered such a strong reaction both morally and legally for him.

It could be innocent but it's 100% Criminal Stupidity.

IF this was innocent as he claims, he is way dumber than he likes to brag he is. This is about as dumb as dumb gets and a photo of it could be in the dictionary under the word dumb.

Someone that dumb shouldn't have any say in policy of any type.

To put yourself in this position is inexusable.

He's either incredibly stupid, or incredibly brazen and racist and this was a barely veiled attempt to let a specific subset of voters know, he has their backs.

As others have said, time will tell. Until then, there isn't a lot of point continuing this 'debate' as it's just a matter of time till lines get crossed that can't get uncrossed.

PsychoSmiley

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#3334214 21-Jan-2025 16:04

CrazyM:

The video evidence is already in the thread in GZT's post. He jumps around waving, makes his speech with many fist pumps and hand gestures, including the one that offends people in this thread, says "my heart goes out to you", and on and on.

Some people read it one way, some others. My take is that it was innocent and not intended to reference anything Nazi, but opinions can vary.

Interesting that some people consider themselves to be the arbiters of truth and cannot fathom that other people might see things differently.

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it certainly is a god damn duck. And it wasn't just once, it was 3 times I think, at least 2 in quick succession? You do not accidentally do something like that. If I'm thinking of a gesture about my heart going out to people specifically a large group of , it would be palm to middle of chest, with a sweeping arc out palm up; nobody could confuse that.

I hope Germany flings all his shit out of their country.

r/coolguides - A cool guide to knowing what a raised hand means

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freitasm

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#3334218 21-Jan-2025 16:15

@CrazyM:

freitasm:

@CrazyM:

Surely not just the hand gesture (from a guy who is known for making exuberant gestures)?

Please provide video evidence.

For example, for Kamala's hand the comment I read is that it was a wave. That's a single frame capture to fit the alt-right story.

So if you are going to comment, please post videos, not single frames.

If not, I will start seeing this as disinformation and start banning people.

The video evidence is already in the thread in GZT's post. He jumps around waving, makes his speech with many fist pumps and hand gestures, including the one that offends people in this thread, says "my heart goes out to you", and on and on.

Are you being disingenuous or are really trying to pass for obtuse?

I asked for video evidence of your post here that shows other people doing similar gestures but using a single frame, therefore with no context at all.

So here is the warning: evidence or your account is gone.

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pknz

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Master Geek
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#3334221 21-Jan-2025 16:19

When someone shows you who they are believe them the first time.

Sinuation

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#3334232 21-Jan-2025 16:41

W Freitasm. Take a hard stance against this weird whatabouttheleft crap.

SumnerBoy

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#3334246 21-Jan-2025 17:11

freitasm:

So here is the warning: evidence or your account is gone.

I can't speak for CrazyM but I think he/she was only trying to point out that sometimes things don't always appear as they seem on first viewing, not that Kamala or Hillary were actually performing Nazi salutes.

Most of the images floating around online today are of a similar snapshot of Musk, where it is pretty hard to argue it doesn't look like one.

However, when viewing the full video some of us are satisfied it was not what he intended (although in hindsight certainly a serious misjudgement).

You are free to disagree with that assessment of course, which the majority in here appear to, but I find it a bit draconian to threaten bans based on this discussion, which up until this point has been relatively civil given the volatile nature of the topic.

I know you will argue you were only threatening to ban due to "misinformation", but that is a bit of a stretch based on what CrazyM actually said. If it comes out, and is somehow proven, that Musk did only mean to say "giving my heart", then would you consider all the anti-Musk comments in this thread as misinformation? That is the whole point really - misinformation is often subjective, particularly in cases like this when no one actually "knows" what Musk was thinking at the time.

Therefore surely it is important we allow dialogue and discussion, rather than shutting down anyone who disagrees?

At the end of the day, those who don't want to engage in such topics can easily ignore them. Those that do and find this sort of thing interesting, should be free to take part without fear of bans IMHO.

freitasm

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#3334249 21-Jan-2025 17:23

SumnerBoy:

I can't speak for CrazyM but I think he/she was only trying to point out that sometimes things don't always appear as they seem on first viewing, not that Kamala or Hillary were actually performing Nazi salutes.

First, it's wathaboutism. Second, a single frame is nothing. Show us the video, not a single frame. The only reverse image search result for the image with Kamala Harris was an alt-right sub-Reddit. That source is not reliable.

SumnerBoy:

Most of the images floating around online today are of a similar snapshot of Musk, where it is pretty hard to argue it doesn't look like one.

However, when viewing the full video some of us are satisfied it was not what he intended (although in hindsight certainly a serious misjudgement).

The full, frontal video, shows him doing it. Not the Fox News edition. The "my heart" only came out later. And neo-Nazis are giggity about it.

SumnerBoy:

You are free to disagree with that assessment of course, which the majority in here appear to, but I find it a bit draconian to threaten bans based on this discussion, which up until this point has been relatively civil given the volatile nature of the topic.

I am not threatening a ban based on the discussion. I am threatening a ban based on spreading misinformation. If you can't come to grip with that, then you shouldn't be here either.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Don't have the evidence? Don't bring the claim to this discusssion.

SumnerBoy:

I know you will argue you were only threatening to ban due to "misinformation", but that is a bit of a stretch based on what CrazyM actually said. If it comes out, and is somehow proven, that Musk did only mean to say "giving my heart", then would you consider all the anti-Musk comments in this thread as misinformation? That is the whole point really - misinformation is often subjective, particularly in cases like this when no one actually "knows" what Musk was thinking at the time.

Therefore surely it is important we allow dialogue and discussion, rather than shutting down anyone who disagrees?

At the end of the day, those who don't want to engage in such topics can easily ignore them. Those that do and find this sort of thing interesting, should be free to take part without fear of bans IMHO.

I will leave a quote here. Actually, three quotes:

“Historians have a word for Germans who joined the Nazi party, not because they hated Jews, but out of a hope for restored patriotism, or a sense of economic anxiety, or a hope to preserve their religious values, or dislike of their opponents, or raw political opportunism, or convenience, or ignorance, or greed.

That word is “Nazi.” Nobody cares about their motives anymore.

They joined what they joined. They lent their support and their moral approval. And, in so doing, they bound themselves to everything that came after. Who cares any more what particular knot they used in the binding?”

― A.R. Moxon

What do you call 10 people having dinner with a Nazi? Eleven Nazis.

The third is not a quote but a short story.

Yes. I don't like nazis, apologists, sympathisers and others. And don't need these here.

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Tinkerisk

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#3334250 21-Jan-2025 17:25

Only the stupidest calves,

choose their butcher themselves.

Qui nihil scit, omnia credere debet.
Firewalls do NOT stop dragons.
In effect we have everything to hide from someone, and no idea who someone is.

freitasm

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#3334255 21-Jan-2025 17:36

I think the moment has come to move this to the Politics sub-forum.

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SumnerBoy

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#3334257 21-Jan-2025 17:46

Wow, just wow. All of that because my opinion differs from yours. I am certainly no Nazi apologist or sympathiser and the implication that I am is quite frankly offensive.

You don't dictate what is fact and what isn't. Neither do I.

You have zero evidence that Musk is a Nazi supporter, much like I have zero evidence that he isn't.

But you have climbed up on your soap box and are shouting down at anyone who dares disagree with you.

I think it is sad, I really do, and is a sign of the deeper issues we have as a society where you are either in one camp or the other, and there is no middle ground anymore. You are labelling me a Nazi apologist because I disagree with your subjective view about a hand gesture.

Just stop and think about that for a second.

freitasm

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#3334258 21-Jan-2025 17:47

I thought hard and long, thanks.

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