NZ Election 2020

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BDFL - Memuneh
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#2548799 24-Aug-2020 15:36

Handle9: The cheerleaders who can't find any fault with the COVID response are just as bad as those who find failure in everything.

Both are hacks.

As I said above, there are things to learn and to fix. Potshots are getting tiresome.

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#2548800 24-Aug-2020 15:37

freitasm:

Great for Taiwan. They're an example. As I said above, we are not doing so terribly either.

I'd venture there are very few intelligent people who are saying that we are doing terribly. We just aren't as absolute amaze-balls as one frequent poster would like us to believe and our success should be placed within the relevant context of a general dramatic decline in government leadership in important jurisdictions.

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#2548805 24-Aug-2020 15:43

freitasm:
Handle9: The cheerleaders who can't find any fault with the COVID response are just as bad as those who find failure in everything.

Both are hacks.

As I said above, there are things to learn and to fix. Potshots are getting tiresome.

The people who constantly make excuses for anything that goes wrong are equally tiresome. This hasn't been a particularly effective government over its term. It's done some some good things and many others (including its signature policies of Kiwibuild, light rail and child poverty reductions) have been abject failures.

I'm hardly a supporter of the opposition but there have been fairly consistent failures by this government and they deserve criticism for this.

Edit: typo

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#2548874 24-Aug-2020 16:21

Handle9:

The people who constantly make excuses for anything that goes wrong are equally tiresome. This hasn't been a particularly effective government over its term. It's done some some good things and many others (including its signature policies of Kiwibuild, light rail and child poverty reductions) have been abject failures.

I'm hardly a supporter of the opposition but there have been fairly consistent failures by this government and they deserve criticism for this.

Edit: typo

I can't think of a period in history where having an incompetent government and such a garbage-tier opposition has stagnated the country this much. Apart from sorting out the bargain-basement version of the CRL National gave us (Still have to pay 50% of the costs, though!), neither party has really inspired confidence they can show us a different and better future for NZ. I worry my hypothetical kids will grow up with the same issues we have now - worsening congestion, unaffordable housing and low wages - and the country will have gone nowhere in the next ten years.

It really says something about how bad National have been that they haven't been able to land decent hits on a government that saw fit to promote Phil Twyford. Unfortunately we're all poorer for it.

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#2548882 24-Aug-2020 16:27

GV27:
Handle9:

The people who constantly make excuses for anything that goes wrong are equally tiresome. This hasn't been a particularly effective government over its term. It's done some some good things and many others (including its signature policies of Kiwibuild, light rail and child poverty reductions) have been abject failures.

I'm hardly a supporter of the opposition but there have been fairly consistent failures by this government and they deserve criticism for this.

Edit: typo

I can't think of a period in history where having an incompetent government and such a garbage-tier opposition has stagnated the country this much. Apart from sorting out the bargain-basement version of the CRL National gave us (Still have to pay 50% of the costs, though!), neither party has really inspired confidence they can show us a different and better future for NZ. I worry my hypothetical kids will grow up with the same issues we have now - worsening congestion, unaffordable housing and low wages - and the country will have gone nowhere in the next ten years.

It really says something about how bad National have been that they haven't been able to land decent hits on a government that saw fit to promote Phil Twyford. Unfortunately we're all poorer for it.

National are a mess but really just a typical first term opposition. Look at Labour in 2011 and National in 2002. They were both a shambles and got punished.

The government is less typical. Normally first term governments are very effective. They come in with a lot of energy andmlots of new ideas and shake the tree. By their second or third term they are out of ideas and it's time for a change, like National was in 2017 and Labour in 2008.

Rikkitic

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#2548980 24-Aug-2020 18:14

Handle9:
Rikkitic:

Taiwan is exceptional. I'm not sure anyone knows exactly why. There are many variables with the Covid 19 virus that are still not well-understood. Perhaps there is a genetic difference with the virus strain there, or the local population. I don't know. I am not a geneticist. But there are many things that could account for this. Without knowing, holding Taiwan up as an example of anything is no better than loving a particular politician.

NZ is the best. Except for the places that are better because they aren't New Zealand.

Seriously? What a Trumpian argument.

What a Kellyanne Conway response!

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#2548981 24-Aug-2020 18:16

MikeAqua:

Rikkitic:

No-one would ever describe a male politician as 'handsome' or 'ugly' when discussing his qualities as a leader. What does that have to do with anything that matters? The same applies to females.

You may wish to review your choice of avatar on the basis of the above statement.

Trump's ugliness goes way beyond his physical appearance. My choice of avatar is a political statement. I can't wait until he is gone so I can replace it.

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#2548997 24-Aug-2020 18:44

dejadeadnz:

The fundamental problem with your response, however, is the sheer illogicality of it. You are happy to credit the NZ government with all the success for NZ's "best" (but not actually best) outcomes. When Taiwan beats NZ to a pulp in terms of numbers (how much fluke do you think you will see across a population of 23.8 million?), it could just be a fluke.

It's time to blog a little bit less.

Good on Taiwan. I am glad for their success.

I am not blogging on anything, just participating in a public forum where people post opinions. You are free to consider my opinion uninformed, or wrong, or anything else you wish, just as I am free to post it.

I don't really care what you think about my logic. I don't require your approval for anything I say. I am an unabashed fan of the PM and I think the authorities has done a good job on the pandemic, in spite of the failings at the border. I don't claim any special expertise. I am not a lawyer. I am not a public health expert. I am a private citizen and my vote counts just as much as as yours, even if I don't shout as loudly.

As a vulnerable person, I have to be extra cautious to avoid exposure risk. Yet I can go out, do my shopping, and pretty much have a normal life where I live. On that basis, I am not unhappy with the performance of the authorities. Since I don't happen to live in Taiwan fairy-land, I am grateful I at least live in New Zealand, where things are a lot better than some other places.

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#2548999 24-Aug-2020 18:51

Handle9: National are a mess but really just a typical first term opposition. Look at Labour in 2011 and National in 2002. They were both a shambles and got punished.

The government is less typical. Normally first term governments are very effective. They come in with a lot of energy andmlots of new ideas and shake the tree. By their second or third term they are out of ideas and it's time for a change, like National was in 2017 and Labour in 2008.

Id venture to suggest that the Government by virtue of its shocking past leadership issues is and was vasty inexperienced. The Opposition is equally adept at nothing except keep spending low and look at our surplus. Both wrong. Whats changed? The Govt has surely learnt something. We see portfolios change and people dumped. You cant blame them for poor education, health, affordable housing and infrastructure, they inherited that, you can blame them for not addressing those effectively. Are they easily all resolved quickly? Would 3 years roll all those up and job done? I dunno. Maybe a 3 year term will easily take care of all that, education will be great, health is well funded now, housing is affordable for most. Child poverty is great as we now live on a a high wage economy...., or we increase benefits by 50%, thats an easy and cheap fix?

Now we have a Govt that has dumped some of the swamp. National hasn't apart from Shane Reti, its the same old stuff apart from him. And ironically he is probably only there due to the rebuke of the old white male philosophy that still rules once J Collins shaped her Opposition. Having watched Bridges on a web interview recently, he has changed, I'd get him back, Reti as 2IC and get some freshness into them.

Despite what many think of politicians, I believe many of them are genuine and want to do the right thing for NZ. What party they belong to is less relevant. We need to get rid of the Collins, Brownlees Goldsmiths and Woodhouses (thats sorted).

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#2549002 24-Aug-2020 18:56

Handle9: It's fairly straightforward. Taiwan acted faster, implemented better and more efficiently and has been able to sustain more effectively than NZ.

The statement was made that NZ had the "best" Covid response. It's just not true.

If I said that, it was just sloppiness. I take it back. What I meant is that we have had one of the best responses. I don't claim any special expertise and I never have. People make mistakes. Thank you for correcting it.

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#2549004 24-Aug-2020 19:01

Rikkitic:

Good on Taiwan. I am glad for their success.

I am not blogging on anything, just participating in a public forum where people post opinions. You are free to consider my opinion uninformed, or wrong, or anything else you wish, just as I am free to post it.

I don't really care what you think about my logic. I don't require your approval for anything I say. I am an unabashed fan of the PM and I think the authorities has done a good job on the pandemic, in spite of the failings at the border. I don't claim any special expertise. I am not a lawyer. I am not a public health expert. I am a private citizen and my vote counts just as much as as yours, even if I don't shout as loudly.

As a vulnerable person, I have to be extra cautious to avoid exposure risk. Yet I can go out, do my shopping, and pretty much have a normal life where I live. On that basis, I am not unhappy with the performance of the authorities. Since I don't happen to live in Taiwan fairy-land, I am grateful I at least live in New Zealand, where things are a lot better than some other places.

Fair enough. You saying we did better than anyone else exposed you a tad or three :-). We have done well. others early in did better then they failed. Taiwan has done exceptionally well, but we can still be happy with where we got and where we are now. Our, as in the Western, culture is very poor with discipline. Asian culture is much stronger. If you look at Flouters International, which we are an entrenched member of, we have done as well as we could expect, IMHO. However I fear that the AKL outbreak will be hard, MUCH harder now, than Level4 we all did for 5 weeks, as we (the general public) don't want to comply, its too annoying. Which is a great pity for the many that do

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#2549006 24-Aug-2020 19:05

tdgeek:

Handle9: National are a mess but really just a typical first term opposition. Look at Labour in 2011 and National in 2002. They were both a shambles and got punished.

The government is less typical. Normally first term governments are very effective. They come in with a lot of energy andmlots of new ideas and shake the tree. By their second or third term they are out of ideas and it's time for a change, like National was in 2017 and Labour in 2008.

Id venture to suggest that the Government by virtue of its shocking past leadership issues is and was vasty inexperienced. The Opposition is equally adept at nothing except keep spending low and look at our surplus. Both wrong. Whats changed? The Govt has surely learnt something. We see portfolios change and people dumped. You cant blame them for poor education, health, affordable housing and infrastructure, they inherited that, you can blame them for not addressing those effectively. Are they easily all resolved quickly? Would 3 years roll all those up and job done? I dunno. Maybe a 3 year term will easily take care of all that, education will be great, health is well funded now, housing is affordable for most. Child poverty is great as we now live on a a high wage economy...., or we increase benefits by 50%, thats an easy and cheap fix?

Now we have a Govt that has dumped some of the swamp. National hasn't apart from Shane Reti, its the same old stuff apart from him. And ironically he is probably only there due to the rebuke of the old white male philosophy that still rules once J Collins shaped her Opposition. Having watched Bridges on a web interview recently, he has changed, I'd get him back, Reti as 2IC and get some freshness into them.

Despite what many think of politicians, I believe many of them are genuine and want to do the right thing for NZ. What party they belong to is less relevant. We need to get rid of the Collins, Brownlees Goldsmiths and Woodhouses (thats sorted).

Of course you can blame them for failing to do what they said they would do. They are accountable for delivering what they promised. If they don't do it they have failed. They made the promises, if they made stupid promises that is on them.

By the highly questionable logic you have put forward you can't blame the previous government for their actions either - they were also inexperienced in their first term and learning as they went. The government is accountable for what it does.

As I said above the opposition is irrelevant when judging the performance of the government. Just because someone else is worse doesn't excuse incompetence.

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#2549012 24-Aug-2020 19:11

Handle9:

As I said above the opposition is irrelevant when judging the performance of the government. Just because someone else is worse doesn't excuse incompetence.

It doesn't excuse poor performance but if there is nothing better, then the government still gets my vote. If National or any other party could realistically offer a better alternative, I would gladly vote for them. But that would be a pretty high hill to climb.

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#2549024 24-Aug-2020 19:34

Handle9:

Of course you can blame them for failing to do what they said they would do. They are accountable for delivering what they promised. If they don't do it they have failed. They made the promises, if they made stupid promises that is on them.

By the highly questionable logic you have put forward you can't blame the previous government for their actions either - they were also inexperienced in their first term and learning as they went. The government is accountable for what it does.

As I said above the opposition is irrelevant when judging the performance of the government. Just because someone else is worse doesn't excuse incompetence.

Highly questionable? I can hold them to account (if thats allowed here) for having been on board for a term of 3 years, failed to attend to anything in those sectors for the following 6. Then as they lost an election forget all that? If thats acceptable, then roll on Labour and sit in your hands for another two terms. If thats acceptable its all ok, apparently.

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#2549028 24-Aug-2020 19:47

tdgeek:

Handle9:

Of course you can blame them for failing to do what they said they would do. They are accountable for delivering what they promised. If they don't do it they have failed. They made the promises, if they made stupid promises that is on them.

By the highly questionable logic you have put forward you can't blame the previous government for their actions either - they were also inexperienced in their first term and learning as they went. The government is accountable for what it does.

As I said above the opposition is irrelevant when judging the performance of the government. Just because someone else is worse doesn't excuse incompetence.

Highly questionable? I can hold them to account (if thats allowed here) for having been on board for a term of 3 years, failed to attend to anything in those sectors for the following 6. Then as they lost an election forget all that? If thats acceptable, then roll on Labour and sit in your hands for another two terms. If thats acceptable its all ok, apparently.

Your logic, which I don't agree with at all, should be applied consistently or not at all.

Why should a government get a free pass after three years of screw ups?

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