2024 US Presidential election thread

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#3281265 12-Sep-2024 09:15

The NY Times - Harris and Trump Bet on Their Own Sharply Contrasting Views of America (unlocked free link)

today

Donald J. Trump’s America is a grim place, a nation awash in marauding immigrants stealing American jobs and eating American cats and dogs, a country devastated economically, humiliated internationally and perched on the cliff’s edge of an apocalyptic World War III.

Kamala Harris’s America is a weary but hopeful place, a nation fed up with the chaos of the Trump years and sick of all the drama and divisiveness, a country embarrassed by a crooked stuck-in-the-past former president facing prison time and eager for a new generation of leadership.

These two visions of America on display during the first and possibly only presidential debate between Ms. Harris and Mr. Trump on Tuesday night encapsulated the gambles that each candidate is taking in this hotly contested campaign. ...

Worth reading.

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freitasm

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#3281266 12-Sep-2024 09:17

Sideface:

The NY Times - Harris and Trump Bet on Their Own Sharply Contrasting Views of America (unlocked free link)

today

Donald J. Trump’s America is a grim place, a nation awash in marauding immigrants stealing American jobs and eating American cats and dogs, a country devastated economically, humiliated internationally and perched on the cliff’s edge of an apocalyptic World War III.

If unqualified immigrants who can't speak English are stealing your jobs, then you have a different problem.

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#3281332 12-Sep-2024 10:32

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/09/11/politics/election-poll-trump-harris-debate/index.html

Flash poll, 63% for Harris is pretty good given Trumps cemented large base, even her unfavorable post debate went down a little. a key stat, those identify as independents, favorability for Harris zoomed up from 30% to 48%, those are the voters she needs.

I saw a quick headline re Trump wanting to litigate abc due to the debate, same ole

Swing state poll:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/elections/interactive/2024/presidential-debate-voter-poll/

Not sure what debate Konnie was watching ;-p.

I think the amount who agree with Harris (overwhelmingly agree) on what type of Pres the US wants has already changed minds toward her and those still not sure who to vote for, it will keep them thinking about this question.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/siladityaray/2024/09/11/harris-surges-past-trump-in-election-betting-markets-after-presidential-debate/

without any serious polls yet to show the post effects of the debate and other events on the 10th, +4.5pts in a day for Harris in the bet markets is somewhat reflective perhaps....

lastly, just out from yougov(using other data), this asked about Swifty's effect. 54% of RV's thought it will help Harris (either a lot or a little)

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#3281365 12-Sep-2024 11:45

freitasm:

If unqualified immigrants who can't speak English are stealing your jobs, then you have a different problem.

The jobs they're supposedly "stealing" are the jobs Americans don't even want to do. And they're taxpayers who cannot avail themselves of many of the benefits of that tax paid.

If they actually stopped undocumented migrants, entire industries would collapse.

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#3281370 12-Sep-2024 11:54

+1 to everything in @Kyanar's post. Illegals pay large sums into income tax and Social Security through automated pay deductions but can't benefit from it, so they're actually subsidising American workers. In addition the US economy is highly dependent on vast numbers of unskilled labourers to do dangerous and unpleasant work that Americans won't do, those are jobs that won't be filled with locals so they're not taking anyone's jobs.

In a way it was a self-inflicted wound, when NAFTA was signed cheap US corn drove Mexican farmers out of business, but US jobs went to China and India instead of Mexico. The booming US economy at the time created a huge and unfulfillable demand for cheap, unskilled labour, which in turn created waves of (legal) immigration to fill demand. Congress responded to this by cracking down on immigration leading to massive illegal immigration instead.

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#3281399 12-Sep-2024 12:18

I am not disagreeing. What I'm saying is that if people with no qualifications are stealing your job, then you are probably even less qualified. Or just don't want it.

Either way, fake enragement. Just racism.

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#3281401 12-Sep-2024 12:24

freitasm: Either way, fake enragement. Just racism.

The technical term is eliminationism, in which you excise segments of the population to make it "healthy". Popular among autocrats (and would-be autocrats) worldwide.

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#3281402 12-Sep-2024 12:26

Swift is definitely having "some" impact. aside from the near 10M likes in a day, from her link to voter registration 330000+ referrals to register to vote, Id say its quite possibly closer to 400k now, but either way, thats a lot of NEW voters, it doesnt even touch on how many existing voters she may influence.

Cant say Im a fan of her voice but a huge fan of her political courage, not forgetting maga threats in prior endorsements.

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#3281530 12-Sep-2024 18:01

https://www.racetothewh.com/president/polls

Speaking of endorsements. Looking at the graph for "Tend line - National all Polls", the up tick in Trump by ~1 to 1.3%, completely coincides with the RFKjr dropping out of the ten battleground states on the same Trend Line graph. They are a mirror image in timing. So, the pollsters who, to be fair based on demographics etc, had said its likely to only impact the GE poll by +0.5%, possibly underestimated the undecided independent voters.

However after that debate, then Swifty making a big impact on new voters likely a big % for Harris, it will be interesting to see how much of a correction it makes to the GE polls and that "Trend Line". It could pull those independents who were moved from RFKjr to Trump, back toward Harris as well. Vance is saying americans wont be swayed by Swift.

Of course its just the pop vote in the end but its still a momentum guide.

Interesting to see Trump put on the pomp and shake Harris hand, over the top, at the Sept 11 gathering. Possibly aimed at defusing his look as an angry revengeful man.

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#3281540 12-Sep-2024 18:40

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#3281548 12-Sep-2024 19:29

Sideface:

I like the first one as it made me laugh, but the last one is the sad reality with americans. Seriously how Trump and his age/mentality is ignored yet Harris they are saying didnt provide policies, we need to know more, even though the purpose of a debate is to show who is fit for purpose, not specifically policy. Even after she has stated policy is on her site, where is his? also he seems confused between a sanction and a tariff or he doesnt get who pays for the tariffs (nor do a lot on SM still).

If I was her Id forget another debate, id sit down and do a bunch of softball interviews about her economic policy, all the quirky things like Tariffs and the US folk will pay for them, just debunk lies but promote her positive outlook, a big one to bust is "things were better under". Things were better everywhere on earth before the pandemic/recession, its not a logical statement, but still they managed record employment & economic growth etc, and play those interviews across the swing states.

It truely is perplexing how Biden was losing it, yet Trump isn't being called out for similar by the public.

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#3281553 12-Sep-2024 19:56

RawStory: 'What information?' CNN host cuts in as Lara Trump tries to backtrack Trump claim

Lara Trump, daughter-in-law to the Republican Party's presidential candidate and co-chair of its national committee, received a check on CNN Tuesday morning when she tried to backtrack misleading Truth Social messaging from her father-in-law.

Anchor Kasie Hunt demanded the Republican National Committee leader explain what exactly former President Donald Trump meant when he wrote Sunday that "20% of the Mail-In Ballots in Pennsylvania are fraudulent" — a claim he cited to an undated interview with an unnamed expert.

"Donald Trump," Lara Trump replied, "wants every voter no matter if you're voting Republican, Democrat or third-party candidate to feel comfortable ..."

"So," Hunt cut in, speaking over her guest, "why is he saying that 20 percent of them are fraudulent?"

This is a near-direct quote of Trump's messaging on his social media site, where he demanded the Federal Bureau of Investigation look into claims that Democrats were rigging votes.

"An interview by Tucker Carlson of an election expert indicates that 20% of the Mail-In Ballots in Pennsylvania are fraudulent," Trump wrote in his Truth Social post. "We will WIN Pennsylvania by a lot, unless the Dems are allowed to CHEAT. THE RNC MUST ACTIVATE, NOW!!!"

Trump appears to be referencing an interview Carlson, the former Fox News personality fired after the network settled an $787 million lawsuit over election fraud claims, held in April with Justin Haskins of the right-wing think tank Heartland Institute.

The study Haskins referenced was debunked by the Washington Post in December, when analyst Philip Bump explained a problem with conservative pollster Ramussen's survey of roughly 1,000 voters upon which it relied.

"This instantly fails the smell test," wrote Bump. "A fifth of voters said they voted in a state where they no longer live? About 6 in 10 Americans have never moved out of the states in which they were born. Half of the rest, we are meant to believe, committed an obvious form of election fraud three years ago."

On Tuesday, Lara Trump tried to pivot away from Trump's misleading messaging to her own political talking points.

"He's specifically referencing information from the 2020 election," Lara Trump said. "What we're talking about right now is making sure that every vote matters and every vote counts, and I've worked very hard—"

Hunt wasn't having it.

"What information do we have?" Hunt asked. "What evidence is there that 20 percent of the mail-in ballots were fraudulent?"

"I didn't see that report," Lara Trump said. "So I'd have to go back and look at it."
...

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#3281557 12-Sep-2024 20:49

True to form, the orange buffoon and his Republican pals are deflecting his poor debate performance back onto the network, and asking for the next debate to be done somewhere friendly, like Fox:

https://www.politico.com/news/2024/09/11/republicans-blame-moderators-trump-debate-performance-00178591

So much for Mr "anytime, anywhere" 🙄

ezbee

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#3281581 12-Sep-2024 21:55

Debate

The affordable heathcare plan pitched as perfect, any day now you will see, throught his Presidancy.

Now...
Q Yes or no, You still do not have a plan ?
A "I have concepts of a plan" was the answer from Trump when asked all these years later.

Sounds like he is taking lines from Guardians of the Galaxy.

Marvel's Guardians of the Galaxy clip - 12 percent of a plan | HD (Its barely a concept)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XC8qrH3Zwog

Given he lies upon lie upon lie.
What is the point even evaluating policy and promises, as it can just be another lie.

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#3281588 13-Sep-2024 00:27

linw:

After watching the 'debate', I had to wait for a while to let my heart rate subside.

Trump was Trump. Nuff said.

If that's the best America has god help the world.

Lots of nonsense, no substance from either side just ephemera.

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