NZ Election 2020

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#2549073 24-Aug-2020 20:56

dejadeadnz:

Yawn. Any current government needs to be held to strong account for simply one reason and one reason alone. It has the most power to implement material changes in people's lives, good or bad, through actions and omissions. Holding it to account doesn't mean you want it gone or will vote for the opposition. It's about objectively evaluating its performance and pointing out facts about it. Again, if any government is simply able to constantly raise the "But the other lot were worse!" (whether it's true or not) as some kind of conclusory defence, it ceases to be governance by consent. Seeking to shut down criticisms by pulling out the "The other lot were worse!" line constantly is equally daft for the same reason.

Yawn I agree with. So whats with the obsession here? Comparing one Govts first term with another? Is that what these posts are all about? That one comparison? Well, ok. What about what I have commented on which has been ignored and is the point, what does the current Govt have to offer in its term 2 and 3 if they get a term 2 and 3. The comparison is Nationals first term which has been posted here as poor, and labours has been poor. So that leaves us with, what about the last two terms are we allowed to compare them or not??? Maybe not it seems. Nationals were poor, what was the current Govt's terms 2 and 3 like? They haven't happened yet That was the question. Not the obsession that gathered here. But this thread for some seems just about bad moods and looking for something to bitch about. But if the question of whether the current Govt has or will learn from its first term is irrelevant in a thread titled Election 2020, then we can move on

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#2549075 24-Aug-2020 21:06

Handle9:

The first term of the Key government was a failure because you said so? Have you actually go specific promised policies that weren't implemented? There is a fairly extensive catalogue for the current government.

Why are you changing the topic?

By your words. Because you said so

By the highly questionable logic you have put forward you can't blame the previous government for their actions either - they were also inexperienced in their first term and learning as they went.

Or are health, education, affordable housing, transport, congestion not relevant over 9 years is hardly learning as they went. new inexperieced Govt and went nowhere.

Hence my point pages ago that continues to be ignored, what does the current Govt have to offer, if they complete their 9 years? No one wants to offer an opinion in that for some reason, its just diversion.

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#2549077 24-Aug-2020 21:09

tdgeek:

Handle9:

The first term of the Key government was a failure because you said so? Have you actually go specific promised policies that weren't implemented? There is a fairly extensive catalogue for the current government.

Why are you changing the topic?

By your words. Because you said so

By the highly questionable logic you have put forward you can't blame the previous government for their actions either - they were also inexperienced in their first term and learning as they went.

Or are health, education, affordable housing, transport, congestion not relevant over 9 years is hardly learning as they went. new inexperieced Govt and went nowhere.

Hence my point pages ago that continues to be ignored, what does the current Govt have to offer, if they complete their 9 years? No one wants to offer an opinion in that for some reason, its just diversion.

I think you are confusing yourself now.

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#2549078 24-Aug-2020 21:09

tdgeek:

Yawn I agree with. So whats with the obsession here? Comparing one Govts first term with another? Is that what these posts are all about? That one comparison? Well, ok. What about what I have commented on which has been ignored and is the point, what does the current Govt have to offer in its term 2 and 3 if they get a term 2 and 3. The comparison is Nationals first term which has been posted here as poor, and labours has been poor. So that leaves us with, what about the last two terms are we allowed to compare them or not??? Maybe not it seems. Nationals were poor, what was the current Govt's terms 2 and 3 like? They haven't happened yet That was the question. Not the obsession that gathered here. But this thread for some seems just about bad moods and looking for something to bitch about. But if the question of whether the current Govt has or will learn from its first term is irrelevant in a thread titled Election 2020, then we can move on

Stop projecting - there's no obsession. People just would like to point out the many very poor aspects of this government's delivery, which even you have conceded. All your prattling about history or what Labour may/may not do if they get a 2nd or 3rd term doesn't change the fact that, through their actions and inactions, they have let down a lot of people. And they deserve to be pointed out for this. Since this isn't the DPRK and people ware not required to worship our Dear Leaders, could Your Highness perhaps allow people the opportunity to, you know, express their views as citizens of this country without being hectored by multiple short posts just that keep pointing out the same irrelevancies? Because unless you can invent some machine where the wrongs of party B can be used as credit to cancel out the wrongs and impacts of the incumbent government, your shouting isn't going to invalidate any reasoned criticism of any incumbent's non-delivery. Performance evaluation of course have relativistic components but any intelligent and reasonable citizen is entitled to expect that the government keeps its word.

And there's no "diversion" -- most people when they vote during an election consider what performance they are likely to receive in the upcoming term; not potentially the term after. There are simply too many unknowns. Your childish insistence that people address this nonsense is the same as some idiot blathering during a physicists' conference that they are ignoring what the [insert religious text] says about creation or whatever. It's not a relevant topic and people are reasonably uninterested in it.

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#2549084 24-Aug-2020 21:17

dejadeadnz:

tdgeek:

Yawn I agree with. So whats with the obsession here? Comparing one Govts first term with another? Is that what these posts are all about? That one comparison? Well, ok. What about what I have commented on which has been ignored and is the point, what does the current Govt have to offer in its term 2 and 3 if they get a term 2 and 3. The comparison is Nationals first term which has been posted here as poor, and labours has been poor. So that leaves us with, what about the last two terms are we allowed to compare them or not??? Maybe not it seems. Nationals were poor, what was the current Govt's terms 2 and 3 like? They haven't happened yet That was the question. Not the obsession that gathered here. But this thread for some seems just about bad moods and looking for something to bitch about. But if the question of whether the current Govt has or will learn from its first term is irrelevant in a thread titled Election 2020, then we can move on

Stop projecting - there's no obsession. People just would like to point out the many very poor aspects of this government's delivery, which even you have conceded. All your prattling about history or what Labour may/may not do if they get a 2nd or 3rd term doesn't change the fact that, through their actions and inactions, they have let down a lot of people. And they deserve to be pointed out for this. Since this isn't the DPRK and people ware not required to worship our Dear Leaders, could Your Highness perhaps allow people the opportunity to, you know, express their views as citizens of this country without being hectored by multiple short posts just that keep pointing out the same irrelevancies? Because unless you can invent some machine where the wrongs of party B can be used as credit to cancel out the wrongs and impacts of the incumbent government, your shouting isn't going to invalidate any reasoned criticism of any incumbent's non-delivery. Performance evaluation of course have relativistic components but any intelligent and reasonable citizen is entitled to expect that the government keeps its word.

Cant you read? What is the title of this thread? Election 2020. My comment was, pages ago, can this current Govt, learn from its mistakes and what can it offer for term 2 and 3 if it gets terms 2 and 3? There is an election in October, is that not a relevant point? Or do you want to wallow in history yourself by repeating yourself over and over?

If you feel that due to the many reasons you state that the Govt will or will not, improve then thats your opinion on the point posted, nothing more nothing less. There is no right or wrong answer, but for some reaosn no one wants to offer their opinion.

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#2549086 24-Aug-2020 21:20

Handle9:

I think you are confusing yourself now.

No. No one wants to answer my query. I wonder why

Hence my point pages ago that continues to be ignored, what does the current Govt have to offer, if they complete their 9 years?

Maybe the next 6 years, potentially, is not relevant in an Election 2020 topic.

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#2549088 24-Aug-2020 21:21

Err, you're the one prattling on about term 3. Can you not read? I just told you why that's irrelevant for most. As for judging their likely performance in term 2, the most proximate and reliable indicator of performance is what they have (or haven't) achieved this term. Not what happened when another bunch of people (who are largely all gone now) were in government.

Can you try and speed up your mind a bit and stay consistent, instead of just rambling?

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#2549098 24-Aug-2020 21:34

dejadeadnz:

As for judging their likely performance in term 2, the most proximate and reliable indicator of performance is what they have (or haven't) achieved this term.

You should have stated that pages ago. Instead of jumping on your high horse so the two of you can satisfy the weekly 5 page argumentative session that you both end up in regularly here.

If post term 2, ie, term 3 is myself childishly commenting on that, well you might wonder why parties show their long term plan, why people may in fact be interested in that. Or is narrow minded and short sighted preferred? Off course there are unknowns, thats obvious. But if you feel not many are bothered with that, thats your opinion. It doesn't need the usual BS rhetoric attached.

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#2549101 24-Aug-2020 21:40

tdgeek:

dejadeadnz:

As for judging their likely performance in term 2, the most proximate and reliable indicator of performance is what they have (or haven't) achieved this term.

You should have stated that pages ago. Instead of jumping on your high horse so the two of you can satisfy the weekly 5 page argumentative session that you both end up in regularly here.

If post term 2, ie, term 3 is myself childishly commenting on that, well you might wonder why parties show their long term plan, why people may in fact be interested in that. Or is narrow minded and short sighted preferred? Off course there are unknowns, thats obvious. But if you feel not many are bothered with that, thats your opinion. It doesn't need the usual BS rhetoric attached.

Go back and read the thread, perhaps after you've had a chance to calm down. Your desire to get offended seems to cloud your ability to comprehend what is written.

tdgeek

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#2549108 24-Aug-2020 21:57

Handle9:

Go back and read the thread, perhaps after you've had a chance to calm down. Your desire to get offended seems to cloud your ability to comprehend what is written.

You say that a lot to people here. I actually did browse over it, from when I asked the term 2 term 3 question. Silly me, that seemed quite relevant in an Election 2020 thread. And Im sure some may see that they may improve or they may not. Some may even look at post 36 months, yes some people may just think past 3 years, heaven forbid. Yet for such a simple query, pages of negative anger and resentment. Yes Im aware you are very negative at times, and the other fella has a pent up hate for MoH, AB and most other things, everyone here knows that.

Desire to get offended? Thats funny. Desire to read the same old grumpy posts, with the same old rhetoric, no, not so much.

dejadeadnz

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#2549117 24-Aug-2020 22:31

tdgeek:

You should have stated that pages ago. Instead of jumping on your high horse so the two of you can satisfy the weekly 5 page argumentative session that you both end up in regularly here.

If post term 2, ie, term 3 is myself childishly commenting on that, well you might wonder why parties show their long term plan, why people may in fact be interested in that. Or is narrow minded and short sighted preferred? Off course there are unknowns, thats obvious. But if you feel not many are bothered with that, thats your opinion. It doesn't need the usual BS rhetoric attached.

The fact that people use the most recent history to judge politicians is easily established by election results tending to align closely with what credible pre-election polls show. And people can see for themselves how polls tend to swing in response to what voters view as "benchmark"/important current events or the like. Whether you like this or not is irrelevant.

Further, I didn't say that long term plans are irrelevant but it's easily understood why few would focus more on it as opposed to recent performance, particularly in respect of an incumbent government. Many of the same people will (if re-elected) still be around and this has a lot more bearing than what they think they can/will do in 4 or 5 years' time, when some of these people won't be around.

Is that really too hard for you to understand?

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#2549119 24-Aug-2020 22:36

dejadeadnz:

Is that really too hard for you to understand?

Is it really too hard for you to leave out the personal slights? Just make your point and stop there. Maybe someone will even listen.

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#2549120 24-Aug-2020 22:38

Rikkitic:
dejadeadnz:

Is that really too hard for you to understand?

Is it really too hard for you to leave out the personal slights? Just make your point and stop there. Maybe someone will even listen.

Can you not see the irony?