Our PM Jacinda Ardern (and the government)

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Awrrr
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#2989987 31-Oct-2022 12:23

I have plenty of thoughts about religion in general and christianity specifically, but the point I was making was just to parody the racist jibe about Māori spirits. Apparently indigenous mythology is something to be made fun of, but you get fined for disrespecting majority religion, which isn't even the religion of the majority anymore.

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GV27

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#2989991 31-Oct-2022 12:32

Rikkitic:

I have plenty of thoughts about religion in general and christianity specifically, but the point I was making was just to parody the racist jibe about Māori spirits. Apparently indigenous mythology is something to be made fun of, but you get fined for disrespecting majority religion, which isn't even the religion of the majority anymore.

Is anyone proposing reform requiring us to give consideration of those religions though?

I'm also struggling to recall any high-profile fines for blasphemy. That kind of thing seems like it would get a lot of attention.

networkn

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#2990043 31-Oct-2022 14:21

GV27:

Is anyone proposing reform requiring us to give consideration of those religions though?

I'm also struggling to recall any high-profile fines for blasphemy. That kind of thing seems like it would get a lot of attention.

I'd be bankrupt by lunchtime.

marmel

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#2990298 31-Oct-2022 21:02

Government 'open to change' as coalition of mayors pushes new vision for water reforms | Stuff.co.nz

One thing that always amuses me is the PM's claims of water bills or rates going up if we don't accept the 3Water's bill.

Where do people really think the money will come from if it is funded by central government? She seems to be trying to slip one past the public by suggesting if everyone accepts the 3Water's plan we won't have to pay for it. Unless she has a magic money wand on the 9th floor taxpayers will fund this just like we fund everything else.

Maybe Labour should really take off the blinkers and realise water reform doesn't have to involve stripping councils of assets, (yes I know 'technically' councils retain ownership but it's BS ownership, nothing else) doesn't have to involve multiple layers of bureaucracy and doesn't have to mean some councils will get no representation on boards at all. The one and only reason why central government couldn't easily set up a central funding agency to oversee/fund water infrastructure upgrades is an ideological one, co-governance included.

I really don't believe Labour have anywhere near the ability to set this up without it turning into a major disaster like most of their other policies. My wife is from a farming family and has worked in the agriculture industry for 20 years. Last week she spoke to a local farmer who has already spent $20k trying to get his farm plan signed off only to be told local iwi would have to come and speak to him before it could be progressed any further. This is happening now, this is what farmers and businesses are having to deal with, this country is heading into some sought of woke oblivion where we won't even be able to fart without applying for a permit.

elpenguino

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#2990306 31-Oct-2022 21:16

marmel:

I really don't believe Labour have anywhere near the ability to set this up without it turning into a major disaster like most of their other policies. My wife is from a farming family and has worked in the agriculture industry for 20 years. Last week she spoke to a local farmer who has already spent $20k trying to get his farm plan signed off only to be told local iwi would have to come and speak to him before it could be progressed any further. This is happening now, this is what farmers and businesses are having to deal with, this country is heading into some sought of woke oblivion where we won't even be able to fart without applying for a permit.

That's terrible. Farmers should be allowed to continue wrecking waterways as they see fit./s

In the treaty of Waitangi, Maori are guaranteed rights over their fisheries.

A deal is a deal.

Most of the posters in this thread are just like chimpanzees on MDMA, full of feelings of bonhomie, joy, and optimism. Fred99 8/4/21

marmel

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#2990308 31-Oct-2022 21:21

elpenguino:

marmel:

I really don't believe Labour have anywhere near the ability to set this up without it turning into a major disaster like most of their other policies. My wife is from a farming family and has worked in the agriculture industry for 20 years. Last week she spoke to a local farmer who has already spent $20k trying to get his farm plan signed off only to be told local iwi would have to come and speak to him before it could be progressed any further. This is happening now, this is what farmers and businesses are having to deal with, this country is heading into some sought of woke oblivion where we won't even be able to fart without applying for a permit.

That's terrible. Farmers should be allowed to continue wrecking waterways as they see fit./s

In the treaty of Waitangi, Maori are guaranteed rights over their fisheries.

A deal is a deal.

Pretty silly response, the fact that this farmer has spent $20k coming up with a plan and applying for the required permits clearly show he is trying to do the right thing. Do you think the actual regulatory authority that actually have trained staff with the required technical knowledge should be making these decisions?

networkn

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#2990311 31-Oct-2022 21:23

elpenguino:
marmel:

I really don't believe Labour have anywhere near the ability to set this up without it turning into a major disaster like most of their other policies. My wife is from a farming family and has worked in the agriculture industry for 20 years. Last week she spoke to a local farmer who has already spent $20k trying to get his farm plan signed off only to be told local iwi would have to come and speak to him before it could be progressed any further. This is happening now, this is what farmers and businesses are having to deal with, this country is heading into some sought of woke oblivion where we won't even be able to fart without applying for a permit.

That's terrible. Farmers should be allowed to continue wrecking waterways as they see fit./s

In the treaty of Waitangi, Maori are guaranteed rights over their fisheries.

A deal is a deal.

It's easy to be glib, flippant and sarcastic when the consequences aren't yours to live with.

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elpenguino

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#2990313 31-Oct-2022 21:27

marmel:

Pretty silly response, the fact that this farmer has spent $20k coming up with a plan and applying for the required permits clearly show he is trying to do the right thing. Do you think the actual regulatory authority that actually have trained staff with the required technical knowledge should be making these decisions?

I notice you ignore my point about the treaty of Waitangi, it is a bit awkward for you, I agree.

How do you know the local iwi do not have enough knowledge to evaluate the case? Do you assume only those who have been to a university know anything about the environment? Hopefully not because that would be biased.

People are going to have to accept that the future of New Zealand includes more Maori involvement in decision making.

It's not my idea, it was signed by the British in 1840.

Most of the posters in this thread are just like chimpanzees on MDMA, full of feelings of bonhomie, joy, and optimism. Fred99 8/4/21

elpenguino

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#2990315 31-Oct-2022 21:29

networkn:

It's easy to be glib, flippant and sarcastic when the consequences aren't yours to live with.

You've got 28000 posts but if most of them are like this, you're not adding anything to the conversations.

Most of the posters in this thread are just like chimpanzees on MDMA, full of feelings of bonhomie, joy, and optimism. Fred99 8/4/21

networkn

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#2990317 31-Oct-2022 21:34

elpenguino:

You've got 28000 posts but if most of them are like this, you're not adding anything to the conversations.

I'm guessing the irony of posting that and your previous comment was lost on you then?

marmel

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#2990318 31-Oct-2022 21:35

elpenguino:

networkn:

It's easy to be glib, flippant and sarcastic when the consequences aren't yours to live with.

You've got 28000 posts but if most of them are like this, you're not adding anything to the conversations.

You viewed 28000 posts in a few minutes?

I think in 10 years when our food costs have tripled, and we choose lower quality imported alternatives from countries that produce far more emissions to produce said food then we will all sit back and wonder how the hell did we end up in this position. The treaty is a partnership, it is supposed to benefit both parties. Simply adding levels of beauacracy just to tick the box is pointless and devalues the treaty.

Technofreak

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#2990335 31-Oct-2022 22:10

elpenguino:

marmel:

Pretty silly response, the fact that this farmer has spent $20k coming up with a plan and applying for the required permits clearly show he is trying to do the right thing. Do you think the actual regulatory authority that actually have trained staff with the required technical knowledge should be making these decisions?

I notice you ignore my point about the treaty of Waitangi, it is a bit awkward for you, I agree.

How do you know the local iwi do not have enough knowledge to evaluate the case? Do you assume only those who have been to a university know anything about the environment? Hopefully not because that would be biased.

People are going to have to accept that the future of New Zealand includes more Maori involvement in decision making.

It's not my idea, it was signed by the British in 1840.

I wonder why we bother having all those highly paid staff at our councils. Seems like they might be a waste of money if the iwi could do it instead. Just a thought.

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elpenguino

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#2990336 31-Oct-2022 22:14

networkn:

elpenguino:

You've got 28000 posts but if most of them are like this, you're not adding anything to the conversations.

I'm guessing the irony of posting that and your previous comment was lost on you then?

I've made several on topic points. I want to improve the signal the noise ratio.

Let's not be noise.

So what's your on topic point?

Most of the posters in this thread are just like chimpanzees on MDMA, full of feelings of bonhomie, joy, and optimism. Fred99 8/4/21

elpenguino

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#2990337 31-Oct-2022 22:17

marmel:

I think in 10 years when our food costs have tripled, and we choose lower quality imported alternatives from countries that produce far more emissions to produce said food then we will all sit back and wonder how the hell did we end up in this position. The treaty is a partnership, it is supposed to benefit both parties. Simply adding levels of beauacracy just to tick the box is pointless and devalues the treaty.

No, mostly the food with high inputs like water and fertiliser will increase.

We're already seeing a rise in meat and dairy prices and I expect that to continue.

You can try and renegotiate the treaty if you want, but it says what it says.

Most of the posters in this thread are just like chimpanzees on MDMA, full of feelings of bonhomie, joy, and optimism. Fred99 8/4/21

marmel

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#2990342 31-Oct-2022 22:34

elpenguino:

marmel:

I think in 10 years when our food costs have tripled, and we choose lower quality imported alternatives from countries that produce far more emissions to produce said food then we will all sit back and wonder how the hell did we end up in this position. The treaty is a partnership, it is supposed to benefit both parties. Simply adding levels of beauacracy just to tick the box is pointless and devalues the treaty.

No, mostly the food with high inputs like water and fertiliser will increase.

We're already seeing a rise in meat and dairy prices and I expect that to continue.

You can try and renegotiate the treaty if you want, but it says what it says.

You sound like you don't know any farmers, have never spoken to any farmers and don't listen to farmers. Meat and dairy are the cheapest source of protein we have, good luck replacing that with something else that provides the same nutritional quantities at an affordable price.

Please tell me what the treaty states about a farm in the middle of nowhere, without any waterways running through it, unless you count the water table on the side of the highway. The nearest fishery is probably a neighbours goldfish pond.

Only a government blinded by this current ideological crusade would propose implementing massive regulation on farmers during a time of global food supply issues which they themselves admit is going to reduce food production in NZ, especially in the sheep/beef sector by up to 20%. We also know this will NOT reduce global emissions either, anyone taking an independent look at this would think it's madness.

Thankfully I think we can guarantee at this point that 3Water's is dead in the 'water', and the emissions taxes will also be a non-starter, either by National forming the next government or NZ 1st continuing their rise again and putting a stop to Labour's stupidity.

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