Donald Trump, US President #47, US President #45, convicted felon, twice impeached, four times indicted, liable of rape, convicted for financial fraud, guilty of hiding hush money payments to porn actress in attempt to influence 2016 elections

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Forums › Politics › Donald Trump, US President #47, US President #45, convicted felon, twice impeached, four times indicted, liable of rape, convicted for financial fraud, guilty of hiding hush money payments to porn actress in attempt to influence 2016 elections

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SaltyNZ

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#2157122 9-Jan-2019 15:39

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msreef:

Four hundred thousand illegal immigrants were detained at the southern border during fiscal 2018, that's not a trivial number.

And out of that 400,000, how many were detained walking through the desert compared with, say, smuggled in via a truck?

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msreef

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#2157123 9-Jan-2019 15:41

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SaltyNZ:

msreef:

Four hundred thousand illegal immigrants were detained at the southern border during fiscal 2018, that's not a trivial number.

And out of that 400,000, how many were detained walking through the desert compared with, say, smuggled in via a truck?

No idea, but regardless, patrols would be cut down significantly with proper border security, freeing up more money elsewhere.

Rikkitic

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#2157134 9-Jan-2019 15:46

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msreef:

Four hundred thousand illegal immigrants were detained at the southern border during fiscal 2018, that's not a trivial number.

Actually, where did you get that figure? There are an awful lot of phoney statistics being bandied around and I don't think it helps if we perpetuate that here.

Apart from that, there is a big difference between 'illegal immigrants' and 'criminal immigrants'. It isn't helpful when the two are blurred together. Most of those people trying to come over the border are families and unaccompanied children. All they want is to build a better life. Nothing very criminal in that.

Finally, my understanding is that a lot of the people being 'detained' at the border are not even trying to cross illegally. They are simply presenting themselves as potential refugees. When citing 'facts' like this, you need to be careful about precision.

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msreef

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#2157145 9-Jan-2019 15:54

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Rikkitic:

msreef:

Four hundred thousand illegal immigrants were detained at the southern border during fiscal 2018, that's not a trivial number.

Actually, where did you get that figure? There are an awful lot of phoney statistics being bandied around and I don't think it helps if we perpetuate that here.

Apart from that, there is a big difference between 'illegal immigrants' and 'criminal immigrants'. It isn't helpful when the two are blurred together. Most of those people trying to come over the border are families and unaccompanied children. All they want is to build a better life. Nothing very criminal in that.

Finally, my understanding is that a lot of the people being 'detained' at the border are not even trying to cross illegally. They are simply presenting themselves as potential refugees. When citing 'facts' like this, you need to be careful about precision.

Here:

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/08/despite-trumps-claims-most-illegal-immigration-is-not-at-the-southern-border.html

Well to me, unlawful immigrants become criminals when they enter a country unlawfully. But I'm not making a statement on that at all, it's not like it's anywhere close to the top end of 'crimes'. Nothing criminal in wanting to 'build a better life' of course.

SaltyNZ

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#2157152 9-Jan-2019 16:03

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The figure is correct, just wildly misleading.

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Sideface

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#2157160 9-Jan-2019 16:13

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Rikkitic:

Someone taught Trump to read. Not bad for a wooden puppet.

He read from the teleprompter for a whole 10 minutes, without diverting from the script. A personal best?

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#2157162 9-Jan-2019 16:34

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Trump's speech was boring.

And so was the Democrat response ...

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Rikkitic

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#2157165 9-Jan-2019 16:44

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In their defence, they didn't have a whole lot of time to prepare a response, but I agree. It was fairly underwhelming. If they can't do better than this, there isn't much hope.

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Rikkitic

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#2157172 9-Jan-2019 17:05

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On reflection, I think it was a fatal error to let Shumer and Pelosi speak. Talk about old and tired! I can't imagine these two inspiring anyone to vote Democrat. Just more of the same old same old. Everyone has heard it all before. This is precisely how Trump got elected. The machine is still in control and nothing changes.

Imagine the sparks if they had let Rashida Tlaib and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez reply instead! People are still talking about Tlaib's last performance. That is how you seize the initiative. Now the only way we can hope for any change is if Trump gets arrested. At least there is a real possibility of that.

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tdgeek

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#2157179 9-Jan-2019 17:17

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Rikkitic:
On reflection, I think it was a fatal error to let Shumer and Pelosi speak. Talk about old and tired! I can't imagine these two inspiring anyone to vote Democrat. Just more of the same old same old. Everyone has heard it all before. This is precisely how Trump got elected. The machine is still in control and nothing changes.

Imagine the sparks if they had let Rashida Tlaib and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez reply instead! People are still talking about Tlaib's last performance. That is how you seize the initiative. Now the only way we can hope for any change is if Trump gets arrested. At least there is a real possibility of that.

I thought they were fine. What’s to be said? They said open the govt and keep debating the wall. Fact. The wall is ineffective, fact. Stop holding the 800000 to ransom. Fact.

Their take was common sense vs stubborn

tdgeek

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#2157181 9-Jan-2019 17:21

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msreef:
SaltyNZ:

msreef:

Four hundred thousand illegal immigrants were detained at the southern border during fiscal 2018, that's not a trivial number.

And out of that 400,000, how many were detained walking through the desert compared with, say, smuggled in via a truck?

No idea, but regardless, patrols would be cut down significantly with proper border security, freeing up more money elsewhere.

The VAST majority of bad aliens and drugs do not enter the southern border. That’s the issue but trump campaigned on his wall so he screwed up. He sees his idea was a fail but he won’t let it go

blakamin

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#2157205 9-Jan-2019 18:14

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DarthKermit:

From browsing google maps, it seems there's already a continuous wall/fence from the west coast all the way to this point

And then lots of bits near Mexican towns and flat, easy-to-build-a-wall-on bits.

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#2157206 9-Jan-2019 18:22

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Meanwhile, back at the ranch ...

The New York Times - Manafort Accused of Sharing Trump Campaign Data With Russian Associate

Jan. 8, 2019

WASHINGTON - As a top official in President Trump’s campaign, Paul Manafort shared political polling data with a business associate tied to Russian intelligence, according to a court filing unsealed on Tuesday.

The document provided the clearest evidence to date that the Trump campaign may have tried to coordinate with Russians during the 2016 presidential race. ...

“This is the closest thing we have seen to collusion,” Clint Watts, a senior fellow with the Foreign Policy Research Institute, said of the data-sharing. “The question now is, did the president know about it?”

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gzt

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#2157207 9-Jan-2019 18:22

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msreef:
tdgeek:

No one argues against border protection. The massive numbers he quotes and Pence quotes are wrong, most illegals come on via entry ports, as do drugs. Today it was stated that 1 in 4 drug boats gets caught. 26 to 70 billion, or use technology and patrols, in the case of boats, fund that. There is agreed funding for border security. The wall wont stop the numbers as the numbers are wrong and they enter elsewhere. If burglers continually break into your house doors, will you add thicker windows at a massive cost?

Four hundred thousand illegal immigrants were detained at the southern border during fiscal 2018, that's not a trivial number. Once you have end to end walls spanning the entire border, the use of technology to detect illegal immigrants goes up, and the necessity of constant patrols goes down, that will free up some serious funding to put into ports etc.

If burglars constantly break into your house you don't add thicker windows, you put metal bars across them, you reinforce the doors, you cover all bases, not just one. You can't do all that at once though if you don't have the money, but you have to start somewhere.

How many of these have been working in the states for years and years and are basically victims of a very silly immigration policy that cannot take account of this labour that powers the American economy?

geekIT

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#2157233 9-Jan-2019 19:44

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'Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.' Voltaire

'A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government.' Edward Abbey

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