An open letter to James Shaw

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#1884424 16-Oct-2017 15:13

Greens are their own worst enemy. After the admission from their co leader of fraud just shows how seriously deluded they are. They didnt deserve to make the threshold last election.

If they are to be a serious party in NZ politics they need to reinvent themselves so their Green policies appeal to a wider audience. To be even further left than labour means they will never succeed.

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#1886280 19-Oct-2017 14:34

Pumpedd:

Greens are their own worst enemy. After the admission from their co leader of fraud just shows how seriously deluded they are. They didnt deserve to make the threshold last election.

If they are to be a serious party in NZ politics they need to reinvent themselves so their Green policies appeal to a wider audience. To be even further left than labour means they will never succeed.

I agree and disagree. I don't think they need to do much other than stop with anything other than environmental policies. They have no requirement to be social, it's not the core of their values. It came along with MT who clearly has a broken moral compass. Labour is the socialist party in NZ (God help us) and we don't nee anything further left than that!

If they were to concentrate on the green policies and stop being so un-co-operative, they could show some value. If NZF doesn't form with Greens and Labour, Shaw should step down as Leader. He has been a miserable failure as leader in my opinion. Should have at least HAD a conversation with English to see if there was any basis, and should have kicked MT to touch right away. Without that, Greens have had nothing to offer NZ since it was formed. They have not been responsible for policy in all this time and have become more and more isolated.

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#1886296 19-Oct-2017 15:30

There sure are a lot of people here (not only the above) who are not Greens, are not members of the Green Party, are not Green supporters or Green voters, who most likely have never attended a Green gathering, yet seem to think they know precisely what the Greens should do. Maybe they don't agree with you. Maybe your ideas are not in accordance with their values. Maybe you don't know as much about the Greens as you think you do. Maybe they have other ideas. If you want an environmental party of the right, maybe you should just go and form one and quit trying to twist the Greens into something they are not and don't want to be.

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#1886300 19-Oct-2017 15:38

Rikkitic:

There sure are a lot of people here (not only the above) who are not Greens, are not members of the Green Party, are not Green supporters or Green voters, who most likely have never attended a Green gathering, yet seem to think they know precisely what the Greens should do. Maybe they don't agree with you. Maybe your ideas are not in accordance with their values. Maybe you don't know as much about the Greens as you think you do. Maybe they have other ideas. If you want an environmental party of the right, maybe you should just go and form one and quit trying to twist the Greens into something they are not and don't want to be.

Or maybe the opposite is true? Maybe if the Greens got with reality they would realize that behaving the way they do isn't getting them or the people that vote for them, anything of any value and that continuing in this vein achieves nothing and wastes a lot of tax payer money (Not that I believe for a second they would care for a second about that).

I don't need to be a Brain Surgeon to know that a Brain Surgeon shouldn't operate with a chainsaw whilst having been out drinking and the like. I also don't need to be a builder to know that you don't drive screws into wood with a hammer.

Sometimes I don't think the Greens can see the forest for the trees.

Unless of course, you think the Greens don't actually need/want to be in power or get any policy across the line? Isn't *that* the entire purpose of a political party?

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#1886304 19-Oct-2017 15:44

A problem the Green Party has is Kiwis habit of mocking anyone who cares for the environment and usually are quite insulting. That baffles me as caring for our only viable home seems the most logical of behaviours yet folks who do care are illogically dismissed.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

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#1886306 19-Oct-2017 15:50

MikeB4:

A problem the Green Party has is Kiwis habit of mocking anyone who cares for the environment and usually are quite insulting. That baffles me as caring for our only viable home seems the most logical of behaviours yet folks who do care are illogically dismissed.

Well, I mock them for their attitude towards working with others, the over the top activism, things like defacing billboards etc, and their unwillingness to compromise in order to do what's best for NZ.

What I fully respect is their original desire to put a voice to the environment, make Kiwi's aware of the issues and come up with sensible and workable policies to reduce the harm we do to the planet.

The problem is that the part I don't respect, gets in the way of the part I do respect.

I fully supported a Teal Government idea. I think National needs help.

The Greens have done themselves no favours with outlandish behaviour, morally bankrupt leadership and lack of compromises. For them it's all or nothing. Nothing in politics works like this and something is better than nothing.

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#1886308 19-Oct-2017 15:55

Like Labour needs to distance itself from the Unions the Green Party needs to distance itself from Green Peace and other environment extremists. I do feel the MT has more to answer for the damage she did right before an election. It will be interesting to see how they rebuild towards 2020.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

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#1886309 19-Oct-2017 15:58

MikeB4:

Like Labour needs to distance itself from the Unions the Green Party needs to distance itself from Green Peace and other environment extremists. I do feel the MT has more to answer for the damage she did right before an election. It will be interesting to see how they rebuild towards 2020.

I agree that MT should be drawn and quartered. Not for what she did but for what she did to the Greens. Completely killed their credibility in most sane peoples eyes. Shaw will have to go and they need a moderate leader in his place. An actual CEO type leader who can bridge the gap between the ideals and the reality.

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#1886391 19-Oct-2017 18:53

networkn:
Rikkitic:

There sure are a lot of people here (not only the above) who are not Greens, are not members of the Green Party, are not Green supporters or Green voters, who most likely have never attended a Green gathering, yet seem to think they know precisely what the Greens should do. Maybe they don't agree with you. Maybe your ideas are not in accordance with their values. Maybe you don't know as much about the Greens as you think you do. Maybe they have other ideas. If you want an environmental party of the right, maybe you should just go and form one and quit trying to twist the Greens into something they are not and don't want to be.

Or maybe the opposite is true? Maybe if the Greens got with reality they would realize that behaving the way they do isn't getting them or the people that vote for them, anything of any value and that continuing in this vein achieves nothing and wastes a lot of tax payer money (Not that I believe for a second they would care for a second about that).

I don't need to be a Brain Surgeon to know that a Brain Surgeon shouldn't operate with a chainsaw whilst having been out drinking and the like. I also don't need to be a builder to know that you don't drive screws into wood with a hammer.

Sometimes I don't think the Greens can see the forest for the trees.

Unless of course, you think the Greens don't actually need/want to be in power or get any policy across the line? Isn't *that* the entire purpose of a political party?

Yeah but the Greens Eco policies are not compatible with National, that's the issue.

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#1886392 19-Oct-2017 18:55

Yeah but the Greens Eco policies are not compatible with National, that's the issue.

From who's perspective? Compromise is the name of the game, this is the entire issue I raised above.

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#1886403 19-Oct-2017 19:22

Funny how people have been called out and yet are still harping on about what they think is best for the Greens lol. For every person with ying view of the Greens, there is a person with yang view of the Greens who will actually vote for them. Just because you have a certain opinion doesn't make it fact.

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#1886408 19-Oct-2017 19:38

networkn:

Yeah but the Greens Eco policies are not compatible with National, that's the issue.

From who's perspective? Compromise is the name of the game, this is the entire issue I raised above.

National support land owners and business and farmers so they won't land any costs in them. NZF don't support a water royalty so we have ever coalitions do, remove radical changes which results in a compromise. TBH I don't see Nats going
much furhter than water meters which are mostly in place now

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#1886680 20-Oct-2017 09:00

Obviously only time will tell how things work out in practice, but it seems to me that the Greens got a pretty good deal and certainly would not have done any better in any conceivable arrangement with National. They seem to be getting on just fine with others so all the blather about their inability to work together or cope with reality is just that. Considering the challenges they faced during the election, I think Shaw has done an absolutely brilliant job. He must be very pleased.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

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#1886683 20-Oct-2017 09:04

Rikkitic:

Obviously only time will tell how things work out in practice, but it seems to me that the Greens got a pretty good deal and certainly would not have done any better in any conceivable arrangement with National. They seem to be getting on just fine with others so all the blather about their inability to work together or cope with reality is just that. Considering the challenges they faced during the election, I think Shaw has done an absolutely brilliant job. He must be very pleased.

Well, that's certainly one way to look at it.

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#1886688 20-Oct-2017 09:07

Rikkitic:

Obviously only time will tell how things work out in practice, but it seems to me that the Greens got a pretty good deal and certainly would not have done any better in any conceivable arrangement with National. They seem to be getting on just fine with others so all the blather about their inability to work together or cope with reality is just that. Considering the challenges they faced during the election, I think Shaw has done an absolutely brilliant job. He must be very pleased.

That's an optimistic perspective :-)

Here's an alternative view.

NZ First refused to even meet with the Greens. They insisted that all negotiations were exclusively with Labour. That is the antithesis of working together.

James Shaw did an absolutely brilliant job of doing nothing whatsoever. He had ZERO influence in the negotiations and he is now faced with meekly accepting what he's given (which includes ZERO cabinet ministers)

I personally believe that they would have achieved much more by negotiating with both major parties.

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