Our PM Jacinda Ardern (and the government)

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#2680977 26-Mar-2021 11:37

networkn:

Obviously yes, it is 20% better, or the market wouldn't bear it.

The huge number of people living in motels and cars in Auckland suggests the market cannot bear it and has not been able to for some time.

Low interest rates make it very easy to kick the can down the road for FHBs, but they are now committing 40% of two incomes for 30 years to a first home.

That's assuming there's no drop in income for kids, career setbacks, illnesses, or need to move into a bigger home at any point. But they can just borrow more.

The problem is the people who need to move rentals because a landlord sells to realise a tax free gain or their kids need to go to a school they're not in zone for face not only the rent, but massive moving costs, and they're competing with a bunch of FHBs who are in a holding pattern, who as young professionals, are far better prospects for landlords.

Like I say, the emergency accommodation list suggests this isn't working out well for the bulk of Kiwis and it needs to be fixed.

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#2680981 26-Mar-2021 11:39

networkn:

I don't disagree with your sentiment that immigration exceeds infrastructure. I do however think that whilst our congestion is bad by NZ standards, you probably need to spend some time living overseas to see what 'real' congestion is like.

If I want the crappy bits of living overseas, I'd move overseas. If it's bad by NZ standards, why can't that be 'bad enough' to warrant doing something?

Accepting life in NZ deteriorating to 'just a little bit less worse than that' isn't exactly an exciting proposal.

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#2680990 26-Mar-2021 12:03

Rikkitic:

What you seem to be saying is our poor people should be grateful for their poverty because it could always be worse. Not sure I agree with that!

That's not a reasonable conclusion to draw from my comments I don't think (and slightly insulting). What I am saying, is that if you measure poverty by the 10% poorest in the country, no matter how rich we make everyone, there will always be 10% of us living in 'poverty'.

We need meaningful measures. Poverty should have a set definition be it "is everyone in the household getting 3 meals a day, have fresh running water, have access to schooling etc etc etc) or whatever it is".

I am not sure what radio station I was on, but the other day there was panel of cxo's from a number of kids welfare charities like Sallies and Barnardos and a few others. They all had slightly differing views on the right way to solve the problems of child 'poverty' in NZ, but universally they agreed that in almost all the metrics they measured, things were worse than they had ever been in terms of demand for their services. There was a spike in 2020 for what I'd consider being understandable reasons, but things were trending in the wrong direction.

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#2680993 26-Mar-2021 12:12

I agree there should be a fixed definition of poverty. Making it relative to everyone else doesn't make sense to me either. Either you have enough to eat and a place to live, or you don't. Knowing how your neighbours are doing doesn't help.

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#2680995 26-Mar-2021 12:22

Rikkitic:

I agree there should be a fixed definition of poverty. Making it relative to everyone else doesn't make sense to me either. Either you have enough to eat and a place to live, or you don't. Knowing how your neighbours are doing doesn't help.

Also, you can't solve a problem you can't define. The problem with definitions and targets, is that it requires you be accountable and Governments (all) don't like that.

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#2682870 30-Mar-2021 08:19

Yet another broken promise.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2021/03/pike-river-no-more-government-money-to-go-further-into-mine-families-accept-decision.html

It was a disgrace it was made an election issue. It was folly to go in again, we have now wasted another xxx million dollars, and what was the end result, not much if anything of value. Raised those families hopes.

No-one will be held accountable on this either I bet.

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Rikkitic

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#2682891 30-Mar-2021 08:38

networkn:

Yet another broken promise.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2021/03/pike-river-no-more-government-money-to-go-further-into-mine-families-accept-decision.html

It was a disgrace it was made an election issue. It was folly to go in again, we have now wasted another xxx million dollars, and what was the end result, not much if anything of value. Raised those families hopes.

No-one will be held accountable on this either I bet.

It does not make sense to me that they would go that far and then stop, but it was not a disgrace to make it an election issue and it was not folly to go in again. It was the right decision and it was necessary.

It also was not 'another broken promise'. You are again allowing your innate dislike of progressive governments to colour your thinking. Although I disagree with the decision to stop now, the government did do what it promised to.

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#2682894 30-Mar-2021 08:43

Rikkitic:

It does not make sense to me that they would go that far and then stop, but it was not a disgrace to make it an election issue and it was not folly to go in again. It was the right decision and it was necessary.

It also was not 'another broken promise'. You are again allowing your innate dislike of progressive governments to colour your thinking. Although I disagree with the decision to stop now, the government did do what it promised to.

What is progressive about this Government? Just saying it's so, doesn't make it so. They talk about it, but rarely do anything progressive. I could argue your perception is coloured too, what does that achieve?

We have spent how many 10's or hundreds of millions on this and achieved nothing? Money that could have been deployed in an actually useful way? What was the point? The prior Government was told by experts going in wasn't cost-effective or safe, along came Labour who thought they knew better and now have spent millions and millions and low and behold, we are at the point where they are admitting it's not safe or cost-effective.

If this is progressive, no thanks.

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#2682901 30-Mar-2021 09:01

networkn:

What is progressive about this Government? Just saying it's so, doesn't make it so. They talk about it, but rarely do anything progressive. I could argue your perception is coloured too, what does that achieve?

We have spent how many 10's or hundreds of millions on this and achieved nothing? Money that could have been deployed in an actually useful way? What was the point? The prior Government was told by experts going in wasn't cost-effective or safe, along came Labour who thought they knew better and now have spent millions and millions and low and behold, we are at the point where they are admitting it's not safe or cost-effective.

If this is progressive, no thanks.

That statement pretty much confirms my point.

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#2682903 30-Mar-2021 09:07

Rikkitic:

That statement pretty much confirms my point.

And yours mine.

Tell me, what did they get for spending taxpayer money on this? Did they recover any evidence to hold anyone to account? Did they recover remains as was perhaps hoped? Those were the primary objectives.

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#2682913 30-Mar-2021 09:27

networkn:

And yours mine.

Tell me, what did they get for spending taxpayer money on this? Did they recover any evidence to hold anyone to account? Did they recover remains as was perhaps hoped? Those were the primary objectives.

My serious answer would be that not everything of value can be measured in dollars. I think they had to make an effort because it was the right thing to do, and should have been done by the National government in the first place. You don't just walk away from a tragedy like that. If the whole nation gets a lift from winning a major sports competition, it also loses something when every effort isn't made in a situation like this. It is not just about those families. It is about not being willing to spend the resources to bring the bodies of those men back. My only criticism of this is the decision to stop now. I think that is short-sighted and wrong.

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#2682918 30-Mar-2021 09:34

Rikkitic:

networkn:

And yours mine.

Tell me, what did they get for spending taxpayer money on this? Did they recover any evidence to hold anyone to account? Did they recover remains as was perhaps hoped? Those were the primary objectives.

My serious answer would be that not everything of value can be measured in dollars. I think they had to make an effort because it was the right thing to do, and should have been done by the National government in the first place. You don't just walk away from a tragedy like that. If the whole nation gets a lift from winning a major sports competition, it also loses something when every effort isn't made in a situation like this. It is not just about those families. It is about not being willing to spend the resources to bring the bodies of those men back. My only criticism of this is the decision to stop now. I think that is short-sighted and wrong.

How much money is OK to spend? The National government accepted the advice given to it, by the experts at the time, who said the risk was too great. Turns out, it *was*, so the money and effort has been wasted as we have achieved exactly nothing. If you think going into the mine gave the country a morale boost, good for you, it's certainly nothing I've noticed, the vast majority of people I've talked to about it agreed it should have been sealed, a memorial set up and some money given to each family to assist them with a future without their primary income provider.

I don't (despite your prior implications) expect every cent to have a return, but I also expect pragmatism and for people to follow the science.

This was political and nothing else.

Rikkitic

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#2682989 30-Mar-2021 11:07

We have fundamentally disagreed over this issue since it first came up. I doubt that will change. I am happy to let it rest here.

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#2684431 31-Mar-2021 03:27

networkn:
Yet another broken promise.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2021/03/pike-river-no-more-government-money-to-go-further-into-mine-families-accept-decision.html

It was a disgrace it was made an election issue. It was folly to go in again, we have now wasted another xxx million dollars, and what was the end result, not much if anything of value. Raised those families hopes.

No-one will be held accountable on this either I bet.

What election promise was broken? The government promised to re enter the drift, they didn't promise to re enter the workings.

GV27

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#2684847 31-Mar-2021 15:51

A re-announcement of Light Rail today, with no added detail or priority for the North West part of Auckland.

What a farce.

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