Our new coalition government.

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#2220124 17-Apr-2019 19:08

Rikkitic:

Your irony detector needs adjusting. I was just pointing out what you did, that democracy has a price tag. I would have also liked to cut the suspenders to dear old mother England though I do think the money 'wasted' on CGT was less wasteful than that on the flag.

I will like your post and disagree. I support we are part of the commonwealth, maybe I'm old fashioned. But I also support that the ties we have to the Queen are no more this traditional. A Kiwi flag is what I supported. Ideally, we remain as Commonwealth, but have our own identity. Lets face it, the Silver Fern Is NZ

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#2220125 17-Apr-2019 19:10

The problem with a dictator who is great is the one who comes after who is awful. Democracy is a leveller that averages out to an acceptable muddle.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

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#2220127 17-Apr-2019 19:15

We are cross-posting but it doesn't matter. One interesting thing about the changes in modern New Zealand is that people born and raised here still have an emotional connection with the motherland, while immigrants do not. I do not feel weak-kneed when a Royal smiles in my direction and I couldn't care less how many babies they have. I have nothing against them but I do wish they would stay home and quit causing traffic jams.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

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#2220130 17-Apr-2019 19:23

Rikkitic:

The problem with a dictator who is great is the one who comes after who is awful. Democracy is a leveller that averages out to an acceptable muddle.

I agree. Take the Coalition, as in ANY coalition. It becomes stable as the governing party cannot change the world. The idea of lets do this, get 61-60 votes and do it. So, the radical ideas dont get through, so it becomes more stable. And its what the majority voted for. I almost always vote National. I voted Labour once and Greens once. I was going to vote Winston and Winston last election for the sole reason to get a coalition, either way. So Nats or Labs dont call every shot. I caved in and voted Labour/Labour. Why? Nats do nothing and sit on their hands. Labs with little experience could well screw it, but nothing lost, so no risk.

Democracy does rule, well, normally, a North American country does need to join that party...

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#2220133 17-Apr-2019 19:29

Rikkitic:

We are cross-posting but it doesn't matter. One interesting thing about the changes in modern New Zealand is that people born and raised here still have an emotional connection with the motherland, while immigrants do not. I do not feel weak-kneed when a Royal smiles in my direction and I couldn't care less how many babies they have. I have nothing against them but I do wish they would stay home and quit causing traffic jams.

Thats a very good point. Im white, born here, Scottish heritage, grew up reading Enid Blyton. Where I live now, and where I drive to se my oldest daughter, I see Middleton Rd. Where I got lost walking from a Queens visit. So, yes I do have a "link" to the mother country, but I also have a link to independent NZ as in we can have a flag that represents us. Union Jack, and a big fern on black background - sorted! You can have some cak s and eat them too

dejadeadnz

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#2220180 17-Apr-2019 19:50

The CGT debates reveals the way John Key's poisonous style of "Do nothing, smile for the camera, and don't rock the boat" governance/politics is still all pervasive and that this government, despite its pretentious to the contrary, also has no principles. Admittedly, that ought to have been obvious once NZF became a part of it. The utter lack of political courage and willingness to take some political leadership by offering at least a limited form of CGT that fixes some of the inequality issues and NZ's economic structural dependency on pointless residential property speculation is -- just like many, many other things (e.g. the continuing putting off of the required solutions to reduce carbon emissions) -- a cowardly bowing to the selfishness of the mainly babyboomer and grey generation whiners who will not be around to suffer the most deleterious consequences of their selfish preferences later.

If Labour and the Greens are serious about progressivism, they need to have the courage to call out in the next election that there will never be any progressive policies for as long as NZF holds the balance of power. If NZ still lets NZF hang around, then it deserves to suffer and rot.

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#2220195 17-Apr-2019 20:33

dejadeadnz:

The utter lack of political courage and willingness to take some political leadership by offering at least a limited form of CGT that fixes some of the inequality issues and NZ's economic structural dependency on pointless residential property speculation [...] a cowardly bowing to the selfishness of the mainly babyboomer and grey generation whiners who will not be around to suffer the most deleterious consequences of their selfish preferences later.

We do have a limited form of CGT on residential property investors. It's called the Brightline. It's been around since 1 October 2015.

I'm also bemused about how you want to 'fix some of the inequality issues' by taxing property speculation? Like realistically, how would that solve any actual problem?

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dejadeadnz

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#2220207 17-Apr-2019 20:52

You missed the bit about ".... pointless residential property speculation". The point is that our capital market, for example, is pathetically small compared to Aus on a per capita basis. IPOs are low in number and quality. Seriously, these are not good signs if you are seriously about having a first world economy long term. We need to divert money away from property and into investments that are sustainable and produce high quality jobs.

The bright line test has been completely ineffective in modifying speculatory behaviour. You wait out the per se period and we're back to square one. No one who "invests" in residential property (or anything, for that matter) that has an annualised return on capital that is lower than a fixed deposit should be classed as an "investor". The person is obviously speculating for capital gain. Now before anyone says "In which case, tax is/ought to be payable under the existing regime!", I'd agree. But as a matter of practice, the IRD/successive governments have completely failed in collecting taxes in such scenarios.

Edit: fixed typos and clarified a few things.

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#2220257 17-Apr-2019 22:45

tdgeek:

I agree. Take the Coalition, as in ANY coalition. It becomes stable as the governing party cannot change the world. The idea of lets do this, get 61-60 votes and do it. So, the radical ideas dont get through, so it becomes more stable. And its what the majority voted for. I almost always vote National. I voted Labour once and Greens once. I was going to vote Winston and Winston last election for the sole reason to get a coalition, either way. So Nats or Labs dont call every shot. I caved in and voted Labour/Labour. Why? Nats do nothing and sit on their hands. Labs with little experience could well screw it, but nothing lost, so no risk.

Democracy does rule, well, normally, a North American country does need to join that party...

You are being unfair to National. Why? Because National was also part of 3 way coalition's. Simple mathematics- All 3 parties to a coalition have to agree for a law change to happen. But only 1 party has to disagree to block changes from happening. Therefore nothing much changes.

National was constantly fighting against combinations of the Maori Party, Act, and United Future. And Labour has to fight against NZ First. Unfortunately, we are going to be stuck until at least the next election. With another “do nothing” government. As it doesn't matter how important a proposed law change is. If a minor party blocks that change, then that change is not going to happen.

And the minor parties have a big incentive to block neccessary changes. And to force the main parties to agree to unreasonable demands to get any law changes passed. As NZF can now campaign at the next election “Vote for us, as we stopped the CGT”. And only 5% of voters need to agree for them to remain in parliament. If NZF had allowed the law to pass, Then Labour and the Greens would be able to campaign “We successfully introduced the CGT”. Meaning 0 political benefit to NZF for supporting the CGT.

Aredwood

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#2220267 17-Apr-2019 23:51

JA ruling out a CGT while she is in power, is actually an extremely smart political move for reasons not said in the previously mentioned Stuff article. The Green party will (secretly) be very happy with Labour and JA. As the Greens will be able to campaign in the next election “Want a CGT? You have to vote Green party”. The Greens will now easily make the 5% threshold and get back into parliament. And since the Greens will only go into coalition with Labour. Those voters are still effectively voting for Labour. While Labor can now take some anti CGT voters from National.

And National can no longer campaign “vote for us to avoid a CGT”. As that wont be enough to take votes from Labour anymore. And they would also be associating themselves with NZF by doing so. National will now be forced to come up with a new policy, that will both attract Labor voters. Yet wont annoy their core voter base.

tdgeek

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#2220298 18-Apr-2019 07:21

Aredwood:
tdgeek:

I agree. Take the Coalition, as in ANY coalition. It becomes stable as the governing party cannot change the world. The idea of lets do this, get 61-60 votes and do it. So, the radical ideas dont get through, so it becomes more stable. And its what the majority voted for. I almost always vote National. I voted Labour once and Greens once. I was going to vote Winston and Winston last election for the sole reason to get a coalition, either way. So Nats or Labs dont call every shot. I caved in and voted Labour/Labour. Why? Nats do nothing and sit on their hands. Labs with little experience could well screw it, but nothing lost, so no risk.

Democracy does rule, well, normally, a North American country does need to join that party...

You are being unfair to National. Why? Because National was also part of 3 way coalition's. Simple mathematics- All 3 parties to a coalition have to agree for a law change to happen. But only 1 party has to disagree to block changes from happening. Therefore nothing much changes.

National was constantly fighting against combinations of the Maori Party, Act, and United Future. And Labour has to fight against NZ First. Unfortunately, we are going to be stuck until at least the next election. With another “do nothing” government. As it doesn't matter how important a proposed law change is. If a minor party blocks that change, then that change is not going to happen.

And the minor parties have a big incentive to block neccessary changes. And to force the main parties to agree to unreasonable demands to get any law changes passed. As NZF can now campaign at the next election “Vote for us, as we stopped the CGT”. And only 5% of voters need to agree for them to remain in parliament. If NZF had allowed the law to pass, Then Labour and the Greens would be able to campaign “We successfully introduced the CGT”. Meaning 0 political benefit to NZF for supporting the CGT.

Thats true, but Maori Party sold out, got paid out and shut up, UF, well, yeah, nah. ACT, umm yeah. ell, nah. The current coalition is a true measure, radical policies wont get through. Labour knew that, to go fore CGT was a win, they know it will likely fail, but something might get through. It ended up unpopular, so it wont happen, another minor win. It probably saved them a next election loss. They went for a policy, and wont have to wear the result of it becoming law at the election

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#2220299 18-Apr-2019 07:22

Aredwood: JA ruling out a CGT while she is in power, is actually an extremely smart political move for reasons not said in the previously mentioned Stuff article. The Green party will (secretly) be very happy with Labour and JA. As the Greens will be able to campaign in the next election “Want a CGT? You have to vote Green party”. The Greens will now easily make the 5% threshold and get back into parliament. And since the Greens will only go into coalition with Labour. Those voters are still effectively voting for Labour. While Labor can now take some anti CGT voters from National.

And National can no longer campaign “vote for us to avoid a CGT”. As that wont be enough to take votes from Labour anymore. And they would also be associating themselves with NZF by doing so. National will now be forced to come up with a new policy, that will both attract Labor voters. Yet wont annoy their core voter base.

Very much so.

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#2220446 18-Apr-2019 10:04

Jacinda Ardern profile on Times 100 Most influential people of 2019.

GV27

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#2220486 18-Apr-2019 11:00

I suspect the people who have been let down by the failure to deliver key campaign promises would disagree with the 'inspirational' bit.

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#2220502 18-Apr-2019 11:25

GV27:

I suspect the people who have been let down by the failure to deliver key campaign promises would disagree with the 'inspirational' bit.

CGT has been delivered. It turns out its not wanted here, so she has run with that conclusion. Others, yes, not everything has been delivered by today, some wont achieve full delivery. But I'd rather try and not achieve, than sit on hands for 9 years, and let issues slowly grow year on year. That someone now has to solve over the next many years, by whatever Govts will hold the purse strings over time.

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