Ukraine War discussion

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435 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2938008 3-Jul-2022 23:41

Tinkerisk:

Daynger:

You sound exactly like the apologists for Hitler did in the 30s.

Putin is using the exact same strategies as Hitler after he rose to power, make a demand then threaten war if the demand is not catered to.

Oh, another long-distance expert. Ever heard of sarcasm? And you probably know General Frost (if you don't, he killed Napoleon and Hitler). And there would be a tiny difference to 1812 and 1939... Putin just happens to have a few nuclear weapons and you don't (neither do we, by the way). You sound as tactically qualified as your tour guides in 1915 at Gallipoli, which worries me a lot more. So who pushed you that you wobble? Who are you to call for war in foreign countries from a safe distance - are you bored?

So your tactic is to pander to a monster and watch it do as it wants when it wants?

Or cowardice as it is known.

Sounds like a recipe for soviet armour in Berlin, again.

The best thing that could happen is Putin gets handled internally in Russia, someone puts two rounds into his head and there is a takeover by a more moderate leadership.

Troops get pulled back out of Ukraine and things get back to normalish.

Luckily the west and Nato have stood up and supplied arms and training to Ukraine, personally i would have liked to have seen more from the west like a no fly zone to help protect the innocent civilians that have been hammered by Russian war crimes.

Also they have introduced hard warnings such as when Russians were bombing near the Polish border, if any munitions fall over the border into Poland it will be taken as an attack on Nato.

If you stand up to the bully you might get beaten, if you never stand up to the bully you will always get beaten.

Sounds like western leaders actually agree with my tactics, which would make you as tactically qualified as a cabbage.

Tinkerisk

4224 posts

Uber Geek

#2938015 4-Jul-2022 02:56

Sounds like western leaders actually agree with my tactics, which would make you as tactically qualified as a cabbage.

We‘ll call you when we need a new leader.

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GV27

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Uber Geek

#2938022 4-Jul-2022 07:35

Daynger:

personally i would have liked to have seen more from the west like a no fly zone to help protect the innocent civilians that have been hammered by Russian war crimes.

...

Sounds like western leaders actually agree with my tactics, which would make you as tactically qualified as a cabbage.

Funny, what I've seen is most arms control experts agreeing that a NFZ would lead to someone having to enforce it and basically ensuring the entry of NATO into the war, almost certainly sparking a WW3 and possibly nuclear conflict with Russia.

Tactical Cabbage on all sides here, it would seem.

SaltyNZ

8218 posts

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2degrees

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#2938041 4-Jul-2022 08:58

I'm going to split down the middle and say we give Ukraine whatever it wants. Right now that's just heavy weapons - and we should absolutely start training them on the fancier gear with longer lead times like aircraft, so we can give them those too once they're ready to fly them in combat.

At some point they may ask for foreign troops on Ukrainian soil, and I think we should grant that request too. But if we ever get to that point then WWIII is pretty much guaranteed.

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These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.

gzt

17104 posts

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#2938160 4-Jul-2022 12:56

tdgeek: They still reap gazillions for oil and gas. China and India, Brazil, South Africa (BRICS) are a steady supply for the economy

Well, there you go again with the blaming and conveniently ignoring a first world country Germany, and other countries in Europe have dependencies on energy sourced from Russia and continue to remit funds for that. In countries like India and Pakistan basic food costs have increased and they already have problems with energy. Your view these countries should stop imports when even first world countries have not is unbalanced in the extreme.

The former prime minister of Pakistan explains the effect on his country in the first three minutes:

gzt

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#2938165 4-Jul-2022 13:20

Russian scientist arrested after academic optics seminar for students in China:

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/world/2022/07/russian-scientist-arrested-for-treason-dies-two-days-later.html

The scientist has since died in hospital after an interruption in cancer treatment. The news today says a second person has been arrested. Russia and China have divergent infests in many areas. The arrests illustrate deep issues regardless of merit.

tdgeek

29740 posts

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#2938180 4-Jul-2022 13:52

gzt:
tdgeek: They still reap gazillions for oil and gas. China and India, Brazil, South Africa (BRICS) are a steady supply for the economy

Well, there you go again with the blaming and conveniently ignoring a first world country Germany, and other countries in Europe have dependencies on energy sourced from Russia and continue to remit funds for that. In countries like India and Pakistan basic food costs have increased and they already have problems with energy. Your view these countries should stop imports when even first world countries have not is unbalanced in the extreme.

The former prime minister of Pakistan explains the effect on his country in the first three minutes:

Who am I blaming?? You stated that Russia is hurt by sanctions, I merely state that the hurt is not that bad, and why. Its not blaming Germany EU etc at all, its just a fact. Ive never suggested that any country instantly bans anything, thats ridiculous and not possible. You seem to have extrapolated quite a lot from my short comment that the sanctions are not that bad for Russia.

Daynger

435 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2938336 4-Jul-2022 18:09

GV27:

Daynger:

personally i would have liked to have seen more from the west like a no fly zone to help protect the innocent civilians that have been hammered by Russian war crimes.

...

Sounds like western leaders actually agree with my tactics, which would make you as tactically qualified as a cabbage.

Funny, what I've seen is most arms control experts agreeing that a NFZ would lead to someone having to enforce it and basically ensuring the entry of NATO into the war, almost certainly sparking a WW3 and possibly nuclear conflict with Russia.

Tactical Cabbage on all sides here, it would seem.

Russia did say that it would be an act of war, but then Russia says invading another sovereign nation is only a "special operation", it would be a 50/50 call as to what Putin would do.

Based on Russian performance in Ukraine so far, the only thing we have to fear is the nukes, any US or European force would have mopped the floor with the Russian invaders with ease.

If he launched nukes, everyone else launches too. MAD.

Daynger

435 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2938339 4-Jul-2022 18:15

tdgeek:

Who am I blaming?? You stated that Russia is hurt by sanctions, I merely state that the hurt is not that bad, and why. Its not blaming Germany EU etc at all, its just a fact. Ive never suggested that any country instantly bans anything, thats ridiculous and not possible. You seem to have extrapolated quite a lot from my short comment that the sanctions are not that bad for Russia.

There are getting to be quite a few videos on youtube from people in Russia showing alot of empty shelves in supermarkets, etc, factories shutting down due to not being able to get materials for whatever they are building, factories changing from building modern cars to 1950s equivalent cars.

Sanctions are hurting the common people as they always will, i doubt Putin is feeling any pinch really.

Tinkerisk

4224 posts

Uber Geek

#2938342 4-Jul-2022 18:23

It's funny that you're talking about 'we' here and you're not allowed to play at all. :-)

Ge0rge

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#2938344 4-Jul-2022 18:26

Tinkerisk:
It's funny that you're talking about 'we' here and you're not allowed to play at all. :-)

I think you'll find that "we" are playing to the same extent that "you" are - after all, it's not like any nation has boots on the ground officially.

Tinkerisk

4224 posts

Uber Geek

#2938346 4-Jul-2022 18:32

I do not think so. „We“ are at least a regular member of the EU and NATO and take in Ukrainian refugees in large numbers, while you didn't get a single bomb on your houses or on the civilian population during the world wars. You are funny hobbits because you calculate the war and nuclear destruction risks of other countries (houses) from a safe distance and at the same time you piss your shirts when Australian nuclear submarines want to appear in your waters with peaceful intentions. The only thing that really interests and bothers you, that you are economically indirectly affected by the Russian idiocy and are upset about it, is ok. But nothing more. I'm missing a certain consistency there. ;-)

tdgeek

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#2938349 4-Jul-2022 19:00

Daynger:

There are getting to be quite a few videos on youtube from people in Russia showing alot of empty shelves in supermarkets, etc, factories shutting down due to not being able to get materials for whatever they are building, factories changing from building modern cars to 1950s equivalent cars.

Sanctions are hurting the common people as they always will, i doubt Putin is feeling any pinch really.

For sure, yes. So is everyone else though, in countries that are not a direct party to this war. Obviously not as bad, the global complaints are everywhere.

tdgeek

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#2938350 4-Jul-2022 19:01

Tinkerisk:

I do not think so. „We“ are at least a regular member of the EU and NATO and take in Ukrainian refugees in large numbers, while you didn't get a single bomb on your houses or on the civilian population during the world wars. You are funny hobbits because you calculate the war and nuclear destruction risks of other countries from a safe distance and at the same time you piss your shirts when Australian nuclear submarines want to appear in your waters with peaceful intentions. The only thing that really interests and bothers you, that you are economically indirectly affected by the Russian idiocy and are upset about it, is ok. But nothing more. I'm missing a certain consistency there. ;-)

Hard to argue with that.

Tinkerisk

4224 posts

Uber Geek

#2938352 4-Jul-2022 19:06

tdgeek:

Hard to argue with that.

Don't get me wrong, I like you hobbits anyway. ;-)

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