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# 194982 1-Apr-2016 14:40
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After nearly a century of hysterical opposition to a plant named Mary Jane, based on nothing more than prejudiced protestant conviction that anything that makes people feel good must somehow be bad, those who should be leaders but usually act like lemmings, have finally been forced to acknowledge that Mr Cannabis might not actually be such an horrific bogeyman after all.

 

The war on drugs is over. The other side won. Even our very own do-nothing Dunne, dedicated only to remaining a government Minister for all of his natural life, now admits it was just a misfortunate misunderstanding. All those harmless people put in jail, all the ‘gateway drug’ prosecutions that showed hapless users the real gateways in prison, all the wasted police resources that could have gone to solving burglaries and other real crimes that actually do cause social harm, all the illegal profits feeding the gang cancer, all the truly damaging synthetic ‘legal high’ alternatives, all the sheer stupidity and waste and pointlessness of decades and decades of trying to poke a hole in water, discovering it doesn’t work, so spending even more time and effort and resources ever more frenetically doing the same useless thing over and over in the conviction that it surely will work the next time, which happens to be Einstein’s excellent definition of insanity, all of this and so much more, is one big fat f***ing (god I wish I could use that word) failure.  Well done, gutless politicians. At least the Greens have kept their integrity.

 

So the war is over. Time to kiss your loved ones in the streets and move on. It is only a matter of time now. There will be some lingering resistance, maybe a few last desperate rear-guard actions from those who can’t stand to be wrong, but nothing will change the inevitable outcome. Yes, so-called ‘soft’ drugs also cause harm, just like so many other things that are not illegal. Too much will melt your brain and probably give you cancer, especially if you smoke that frankendope stuff that the Dutch have created. But that’s not what it is about. It is about choice, and the right of adults to make wrong ones. It is not about hurting others, of course, so limits have to be placed on that freedom, but countless others have already been hurt by prohibition and incarceration, which makes that a rather weak argument.

 

Colorado has not gone up in flames. Holland has not collapsed into moral decay. New Zealand, ... um, well, the record with alcohol hasn’t been too brilliant but even here people have to grow up some time and it is no secret that more dope is already smoked here than anywhere else in the world. So legalise it, regulate it, tax it, and finally get some social benefit from it while depriving gangs of stepping-stone funding for far worse activities. Marijuana is in fact a gateway drug, but not in the sense that has always been claimed. Every successful new business starts out small with a cash cow product and expands into other lines as income is generated. Criminals do not go to banks to get finance for their meth labs. It is time they stopped getting it from this otherwise innocuous herb.

 

 

 

 

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


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  # 1523985 1-Apr-2016 14:42
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Couldn't disagree more on every point. 

 

Drugs are bad. The end.


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  # 1523987 1-Apr-2016 14:46
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networkn:

 

Couldn't disagree more on every point. 

 

Drugs are bad. The end.

 

 

Whether or not you think "Drugs are bad, m'kay?" - the simple fact is that making the use of drugs illegal has been shown to be an ineffective approach to reducing drug use and harm.


 
 
 
 


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  # 1523989 1-Apr-2016 14:50
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“otherwise innocuous herb”

 

SHORT-TERM EFFECTS

 

  • Sensory distortion
  • Panic
  • Anxiety
  • Poor coordination of movement
  • Lowered reaction time
  • After an initial “up,” the user feels sleepy or depressed 
  • Increased heartbeat (and risk of heart attack)

LONG-TERM EFFECTS OF MARIJUANA

 

  • Reduced resistance to common illnesses (colds, bronchitis, etc.)
  • Suppression of the immune system
  • Growth disorders
  • Increase of abnormally structured cells in the body
  • Reduction of male sex hormones
  • Rapid destruction of lung fibers and lesions (injuries) to the brain could be permanent
  • Reduced sexual capacity
  • Study difficulties: reduced ability to learn and retain information
  • Apathy, drowsiness, lack of motivation
  • Personality and mood changes
  • Inability to understand things clearly

And yes I have inhaled (for many years every day until I realized what it was doing to me).

 

 




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  # 1523991 1-Apr-2016 14:51
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Agree however that criminalisation is not the way forward. Education and treatment of drug and alcohol issues as a health problem is a better approach.





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  # 1523992 1-Apr-2016 14:53
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ubergeeknz:

 

networkn:

 

Couldn't disagree more on every point. 

 

Drugs are bad. The end.

 

 

Whether or not you think "Drugs are bad, m'kay?" - the simple fact is that making the use of drugs illegal has been shown to be an ineffective approach to reducing drug use and harm.

 

 

 

 

It makes me laugh when I hear people talk about the tax gain from legalizing, when the cost of compliance is about a billion times more. 

 

They just need to make the penalties harsher (Say 4 weeks in a Thai Prison for first offenses). Let's see how many second time offenders exist after that!

 

I don't want high or drunk people on the roads with me, and whilst I agree it's happening now, at least if someone drives into me and my family because they are high, punishments will be forthcoming.

 

 

 

They don't have a drug problem in Singapore, because the penalties are very harsh.


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  # 1523994 1-Apr-2016 14:56
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Rikkitic:

 

After nearly a century of hysterical opposition to a plant named Mary Jane, based on nothing more than prejudiced protestant conviction that anything that makes people feel good must somehow be bad, those who should be leaders but usually act like lemmings, have finally been forced to acknowledge that Mr Cannabis might not actually be such an horrific bogeyman after all.

 

The war on drugs is over. The other side won. Even our very own do-nothing Dunne, dedicated only to remaining a government Minister for all of his natural life, now admits it was just a misfortunate misunderstanding. All those harmless people put in jail, all the ‘gateway drug’ prosecutions that showed hapless users the real gateways in prison, all the wasted police resources that could have gone to solving burglaries and other real crimes that actually do cause social harm, all the illegal profits feeding the gang cancer, all the truly damaging synthetic ‘legal high’ alternatives, all the sheer stupidity and waste and pointlessness of decades and decades of trying to poke a hole in water, discovering it doesn’t work, so spending even more time and effort and resources ever more frenetically doing the same useless thing over and over in the conviction that it surely will work the next time, which happens to be Einstein’s excellent definition of insanity, all of this and so much more, is one big fat f***ing (god I wish I could use that word) failure.  Well done, gutless politicians. At least the Greens have kept their integrity.

 

So the war is over. Time to kiss your loved ones in the streets and move on. It is only a matter of time now. There will be some lingering resistance, maybe a few last desperate rear-guard actions from those who can’t stand to be wrong, but nothing will change the inevitable outcome. Yes, so-called ‘soft’ drugs also cause harm, just like so many other things that are not illegal. Too much will melt your brain and probably give you cancer, especially if you smoke that frankendope stuff that the Dutch have created. But that’s not what it is about. It is about choice, and the right of adults to make wrong ones. It is not about hurting others, of course, so limits have to be placed on that freedom, but countless others have already been hurt by prohibition and incarceration, which makes that a rather weak argument.

 

Colorado has not gone up in flames. Holland has not collapsed into moral decay. New Zealand, ... um, well, the record with alcohol hasn’t been too brilliant but even here people have to grow up some time and it is no secret that more dope is already smoked here than anywhere else in the world. So legalise it, regulate it, tax it, and finally get some social benefit from it while depriving gangs of stepping-stone funding for far worse activities. Marijuana is in fact a gateway drug, but not in the sense that has always been claimed. Every successful new business starts out small with a cash cow product and expands into other lines as income is generated. Criminals do not go to banks to get finance for their meth labs. It is time they stopped getting it from this otherwise innocuous herb.\

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Its over? Are you saying its going to be legalised here?  As far as I can see nothing is any different yesterday than today for the drug policy here.


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  # 1523995 1-Apr-2016 15:04
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I'm not very interested in anecdotes, no matter how dearly other posters may grasp on their "personal experience with use or abstinence from drugs, it's irrelevant to the topic. Almost all of us use drugs.

 

Here's how experts see it:

 

 

The other point to note is that while experts in the field might favour decriminalisation, many people seem to consider this as "legalisation" - to the extent that there'll be the equivalent of candy stores dispensing cheap methamphetamine and heroin to school kids.  Nobody sane wants this.

 

Perhaps those who are in fear of decriminalisation and treatment of diseases of addiction as diseases, might consider "what if" a child of theirs was addicted.

 

"Of course it won't happen" (because we're "good" parents) is head in the sand denial of reality - aided/exacerbated by the fact that when something's criminal, then it gets hidden.

 

Would they want their own child thrown in a prison cell and condemned to a life with a criminal record - or given medical help to manage and overcome their addiction?


 
 
 
 


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  # 1524000 1-Apr-2016 15:14
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Interestingly, I have never taken ANY of those drugs.

 

 




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  # 1524001 1-Apr-2016 15:14
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tdgeek:

 

 

 

Its over? Are you saying its going to be legalised here?  As far as I can see nothing is any different yesterday than today for the drug policy here.

 

 

I'm saying there is international momentum in that direction. Former and current presidents of several countries in South America and elsewhere have said the war is a failure and marijuana at the least should be decriminalised (as it already has been in Peru). There is also some support for this from the United Nations. The move to decriminalise is spreading to other parts of the world. Even Australia is beginning to reconsider its policy. All drug use has been legalised in Portugal for some years and that country has not imploded. The policy seems to have actually improved things. Even Dunne has said the government is reviewing its position and is open to change. I'm not saying this will happen overnight. That's not how these things work, especially here. I am saying the changes will happen at some point and there is now no turning that back. A fundamental shift in thinking has occurred and it is about time.

 

 

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


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  # 1524002 1-Apr-2016 15:14
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Also it's a Stupid Title, because Drugs encompass all sorts of drugs and the "drugs" the op speaks of is just Weed!

 

 


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  # 1524003 1-Apr-2016 15:15
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Rikkitic:

 

tdgeek:

 

 

 

Its over? Are you saying its going to be legalised here?  As far as I can see nothing is any different yesterday than today for the drug policy here.

 

 

I'm saying there is international momentum in that direction. Former and current presidents of several countries in South America and elsewhere have said the war is a failure and marijuana at the least should be decriminalised (as it already has been in Peru). There is also some support for this from the United Nations. The move to decriminalise is spreading to other parts of the world. Even Australia is beginning to reconsider its policy. All drug use has been legalised in Portugal for some years and that country has not imploded. The policy seems to have actually improved things. Even Dunne has said the government is reviewing its position and is open to change. I'm not saying this will happen overnight. That's not how these things work, especially here. I am saying the changes will happen at some point and there is now no turning that back. A fundamental shift in thinking has occurred and it is about time.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"Considering" is not the same as "doing". 

 

 

 

I'll be incredibly surprised if Australia legalize weed in the next 10 years considering they are opposed to Gay Marriage. 

 

 


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  # 1524004 1-Apr-2016 15:17
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A few years back I had a seizure and ended up in ED at Auckland Hospital on a Saturday night - it turned out the doctor who treated me was a relation of a workmate.  I heard later (since I have no memory of that time) that I was the most cooperative/easy to deal with patient that night since they are usually trying to help out ungrateful angry/abusive drunks

 

Police who work on a Fri/Saturday night will have similar stories but a lot of underlying NZ culture condones this behaviour.  The counter argument to that is we can't restrict alcohol in any way because it will unreasonably and unfairly affect "people who just enjoy a drink now and then without hurting anyone".  Why is the same logic not applied to marijuana?


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  # 1524005 1-Apr-2016 15:18
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networkn:

 

 

 

I don't want high or drunk people on the roads with me, and whilst I agree it's happening now, at least if someone drives into me and my family because they are high, punishments will be forthcoming.

 

 

You seem to be conflating drug use with driving under the influence, when they are totally different things?




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  # 1524006 1-Apr-2016 15:19
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networkn:

 

Interestingly, I have never taken ANY of those drugs.

 

 

 

 

More power to you. I don't advocate that anyone should, just that those who do should not be subjected to idiotic and disproportionate sanctions simply for doing something they enjoy.

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


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  # 1524007 1-Apr-2016 15:19
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portunus:

 

A few years back I had a seizure and ended up in ED at Auckland Hospital on a Saturday night - it turned out the doctor who treated me was a relation of a workmate.  I heard later (since I have no memory of that time) that I was the most cooperative/easy to deal with patient that night since they are usually trying to help out ungrateful angry/abusive drunks

 

Police who work on a Fri/Saturday night will have similar stories but a lot of underlying NZ culture condones this behaviour.  The counter argument to that is we can't restrict alcohol in any way because it will unreasonably and unfairly affect "people who just enjoy a drink now and then without hurting anyone".  Why is the same logic not applied to marijuana?

 

 


Because Alcohol (wrongly in my opinion) is LEGAL. Simple really. 


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