National leaves Labour with a $20 billion bill

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Forums › Politics › National leaves Labour with a $20 billion bill

MaxLV

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#225671 29-Nov-2017 19:12

What other 'bills' are going to pop up from the previous governments mismanagement I wonder?

http://politik.co.nz/en/content/politics/1241/%3C/a%3E

That the Government is already facing a capital expenditure squeeze was evident yesterday in Parliament when Finance Minister Grant Robertson told the House that before the 2017 Budget the capital expenditure budget was over subscribed by 448 percent.

There were 13.4 billion of bids for only a $3 billion allowance. (This has been added to the original story after a clarification from Robertson's office.)

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA1711/S00184/parliament-questions-and-answers-nov-29.htm

Hon Steven Joyce: Is the finance Minister aware that the defence capital plan is for $20 billion of expenditure over 15 years and is able to be funded by a combination of depreciation and the nearly $110 billion of unallocated capital funding over that same period of time, and does he consider that his increasingly frequent attempts to divert attention from his plan to ramp up debt risk looking a little silly?

Mr SPEAKER: The Minister can answer any one of those three questions.

Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: I will not be lectured by that member, who grew Government net debt by $15 billion on his watch. If there is anyone in this House who needs to take responsibility for debt levels, it's that member. I would also say that the $110 billion he mentioned is based on some heroic assumptions that he made, is heavily back-loaded, and, in fact, contains only $33 million of forward spending in the next 10 years.

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#1910854 30-Nov-2017 08:47

So Robbo gave a tetchy response and that somehow proves something? Wasn't Labour's entire spending plan underpinned by assumptions of like 3% growth per annum?

wsnz

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#1910863 30-Nov-2017 09:16

So no purchases have been committed to, and the statement from Mr Joyce is that they were still debating as to when the replacement needed to take place.

If Labour decide they want to proceed with the purchase, then they can include that in future budgets.

MaxLV

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#1910881 30-Nov-2017 09:29

wsnz:

So no purchases have been committed to, and the statement from Mr Joyce is that they were still debating as to when the replacement needed to take place.

If Labour decide they want to proceed with the purchase, then they can include that in future budgets.

The C130 hercules and 757 aircraft are reaching the end of their opertaional life, and the decision on the P3 Orion aircraft has to be made by March 2018.

The frigates have 9 years left...

There was a transport aircraft (and no doubt salesmen) in Wellington on Monday.

There was also a huge poster of a military transport aircraft on the Telecom exchange building in Fetherston street, viewable from parliament.

Pumpedd

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#1910926 30-Nov-2017 10:19

Labour have stopped the 4 laneing of SH1 between Wellington and Auckland so they can spend on something. I would have thought 4 lanes were imperative to safety.

networkn

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#1910938 30-Nov-2017 10:40

MaxLV:

wsnz:

So no purchases have been committed to, and the statement from Mr Joyce is that they were still debating as to when the replacement needed to take place.

If Labour decide they want to proceed with the purchase, then they can include that in future budgets.

The C130 hercules and 757 aircraft are reaching the end of their opertaional life, and the decision on the P3 Orion aircraft has to be made by March 2018.

The frigates have 9 years left...

There was a transport aircraft (and no doubt salesmen) in Wellington on Monday.

There was also a huge poster of a military transport aircraft on the Telecom exchange building in Fetherston street, viewable from parliament.

Your logic is *massively* flawed as a result of your desperation to make National look bad.

Whoever was in power, be it National or Labour, they will have to *potentially* wear these costs. The fact they weren't done according to your arbitrary schedule, or Robertsons (who is obviously desperate to take attention from all the mess ups his party is making so early on) is irrelevant. Lots of spending gets deferred all the time. Air Force One is about 8 years older than it's recommended replacement date. Governments are made to take into account unexpected expenditure all the time (you might recall National had 4 natural disasters of massive scale to deal with in it's budgets).

If Labour can't cope with the management of the country, they could resign.

Fred99

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#1910945 30-Nov-2017 10:48

networkn:

MaxLV:

wsnz:

So no purchases have been committed to, and the statement from Mr Joyce is that they were still debating as to when the replacement needed to take place.

If Labour decide they want to proceed with the purchase, then they can include that in future budgets.

The C130 hercules and 757 aircraft are reaching the end of their opertaional life, and the decision on the P3 Orion aircraft has to be made by March 2018.

The frigates have 9 years left...

There was a transport aircraft (and no doubt salesmen) in Wellington on Monday.

There was also a huge poster of a military transport aircraft on the Telecom exchange building in Fetherston street, viewable from parliament.

Your logic is *massively* flawed as a result of your desperation to make National look bad.

Whoever was in power, be it National or Labour, they will have to *potentially* wear these costs. The fact they weren't done according to your arbitrary schedule, or Robertsons (who is obviously desperate to take attention from all the mess ups his party is making so early on) is irrelevant. Lots of spending gets deferred all the time. Air Force One is about 8 years older than it's recommended replacement date. Governments are made to take into account unexpected expenditure all the time (you might recall National had 4 natural disasters of massive scale to deal with in it's budgets).

If Labour can't cope with the management of the country, they could resign.

How do you manage to turn what @MaxLV says above into a partisan sh*t-fight with him?

You need to calm down - IMO.

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networkn

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#1910965 30-Nov-2017 10:54

Fred99:

How do you manage to turn what @MaxLV says above into a partisan sh*t-fight with him?

You need to calm down - IMO.

The title blames National for something which is completely normal in running of a country. His tone throughout subsequent posts makes it seem like the same thing doesn't happen every change of government.

Wasn't me that started a fight.

Thanks for your concern though.

shk292

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#1910970 30-Nov-2017 10:59

networkn:

The title blames National for something which is completely normal in running of a country. His tone throughout subsequent posts makes it seem like the same thing doesn't happen every change of government.

Wasn't me that started a fight.

Thanks for your concern though.

Yes, because the OP was so totally apolitical wasn't it? {/sarc}

Labour seems to be saying they don't have the nous to understand the Defence White Paper and/or the pre-election financial statement. Not sure I'd be publiscising that if I were them.

MaxLV

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#1911000 30-Nov-2017 11:31

networkn:

MaxLV:

wsnz:

So no purchases have been committed to, and the statement from Mr Joyce is that they were still debating as to when the replacement needed to take place.

If Labour decide they want to proceed with the purchase, then they can include that in future budgets.

The C130 hercules and 757 aircraft are reaching the end of their opertaional life, and the decision on the P3 Orion aircraft has to be made by March 2018.

The frigates have 9 years left...

There was a transport aircraft (and no doubt salesmen) in Wellington on Monday.

There was also a huge poster of a military transport aircraft on the Telecom exchange building in Fetherston street, viewable from parliament.

Your logic is *massively* flawed as a result of your desperation to make National look bad.

Whoever was in power, be it National or Labour, they will have to *potentially* wear these costs. The fact they weren't done according to your arbitrary schedule, or Robertsons (who is obviously desperate to take attention from all the mess ups his party is making so early on) is irrelevant. Lots of spending gets deferred all the time. Air Force One is about 8 years older than it's recommended replacement date. Governments are made to take into account unexpected expenditure all the time (you might recall National had 4 natural disasters of massive scale to deal with in it's budgets).

If Labour can't cope with the management of the country, they could resign.

You're giving me way too much power. I dont need to make the previous government look bad at all, they do quite well themselves in that regard.

The former Finance Minister Steven Joyce made no financial allowance for National's $20 billion defence re-equipment programme and says it was possible his Government might not have replaced the Orion maritime surveillance aircraft because of the cost.

Because of this the new Government is to review the $20 billion programme which was unveiled with much fanfare last year.

But the National Government never accurately costed it and made no provision in any of its long-term forecasts to pay for it.

No allowance was made in the capital spending forecasts of the Pre-election Economic and Fiscal Update for the procurement programme.

This has left Labour facing a multi-billion dollar hit to its budgets each year over the next 13 years if it decides to go ahead with the programme which apart from replacing the Orions calls for replacing the Hercules and 757 transport aircraft and the Navy’s frigates.

The money would come from the capital investment account which means it will not directly impact on Government operating expenses but rather its impact would be on Government borrowing.

The matter is now urgent because New Zealand’s option to purchase four P8 Poseidon maritime patrol aircraft expires next March.

Under Treasury accounting rules, purchases must be booked when the purchase is confirmed.
http://politik.co.nz/en/content/politics/1241/

MaxLV

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#1911012 30-Nov-2017 11:43

Pumpedd:

Labour have stopped the 4 laneing of SH1 between Wellington and Auckland so they can spend on something. I would have thought 4 lanes were imperative to safety.

Where is this '4 laning' plan. As far as I'm aware, National planned to '4 lane' the highway between Auckland and Whangarei, as part of the their 10 Billion 'Roads of National significance'.
It's a good thing that's not going ahead, as it would have only added more huge trucks to the road, and further subsidised the national party's 'road transport buddies/masters.'

Far better to spend the 10 Billion on the rail link from Whangarei to North Port, and fix the main trunk electrified rail link between Palmerston North and Auckland, to get more trucks off the roads.

networkn

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#1911013 30-Nov-2017 11:43

MaxLV:

You're giving me way too much power. I dont need to make the previous government look bad at all, they do quite well themselves in that regard.

Snarky little jibes like this do you no credit. You want to continue along those lines, you'll find yourself "arguing" by yourself.

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MaxLV

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#1911015 30-Nov-2017 11:46

networkn:

MaxLV:

You're giving me way too much power. I dont need to make the previous government look bad at all, they do quite well themselves in that regard.

Snarky little jibes like this do you no credit. You want to continue along those lines, you'll find yourself "arguing" by yourself.

Whatever. Didn't you say (quote): "Your logic is *massively* flawed as a result of your desperation to make National look bad."

1101

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#1911017 30-Nov-2017 11:49

MaxLV:

The matter is now urgent because New Zealand’s option to purchase four P8 Poseidon maritime patrol aircraft expires next March.

Urgent, because we know how exceedingly difficult is is to get companies to sell aircraft to Governments . Pfft , please .

Lets take some time to rethink if NZ actually needs the capability to hunt down Russian subs in the Cook Straight.
Do we even need to replace the 757 aircraft . Seriously. The govt owns Air New Zealand. Lease something from them short term when needed , or have them arrange a short term lease . If not urgent then just book a flight, cheaper than buying & maintaining new aircraft.

Nat/labour . Its allways the same. By the wrong military assets , then pay to have them fixed, then pay to replace as they wernt suitable
Nat/labour : put off as long as possible.
If you cant see this coming you dont have a long term vision or plan and dont have the skills to run the country

Every time, blame the previous govt for what would have been well known .
Read the paper , all this needed spending was is the news well in advance. Is that too hard ?

When in opposition, go on about run down infrastructure . When elected, claim you didnt know
So predictable. Every time .

networkn

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#1911022 30-Nov-2017 11:59

MaxLV:

networkn:

MaxLV:

You're giving me way too much power. I dont need to make the previous government look bad at all, they do quite well themselves in that regard.

Snarky little jibes like this do you no credit. You want to continue along those lines, you'll find yourself "arguing" by yourself.

Whatever. Didn't you say (quote): "Your logic is *massively* flawed as a result of your desperation to make National look bad."

You can make anything look bad if you take a wide enough angle on it. You have chosen to be very selective in your presentation of the "facts" (Choosing to believe there is only one side and one set of "facts". Your language and tone indicate your views are fairly anti-everything National (masters, buddies and the such), hence your intention to use what little information you have to paint them in a poor light. The reality is your facts are only presented in support of your side of the glass. If you applied a little logic instead of emotions, you'd see a different and more reasonable side to this.

Take your tinfoil hat off, and stop with the emotive language and try having a discussion without all the angst, if you want your points to be taken seriously.

MaxLV

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#1911024 30-Nov-2017 12:04

1101:

MaxLV:

The matter is now urgent because New Zealand’s option to purchase four P8 Poseidon maritime patrol aircraft expires next March.

Urgent, because we know how exceedingly difficult is is to get companies to sell aircraft to Governments . Pfft , please .

Lets take some time to rethink if NZ actually needs the capability to hunt down Russian subs in the Cook Straight.
Do we even need to replace the 757 aircraft . Seriously. The govt owns Air New Zealand. Lease something from them short term when needed , or have them arrange a short term lease . If not urgent then just book a flight, cheaper than buying & maintaining new aircraft.

Nat/labour . Its allways the same. By the wrong military assets , then pay to have them fixed, then pay to replace as they wernt suitable
Nat/labour : put off as long as possible.
If you cant see this coming you dont have a long term vision or plan and dont have the skills to run the country

Every time, blame the previous govt for what would have been well known .
Read the paper , all this needed spending was is the news well in advance. Is that too hard ?

When in opposition, go on about run down infrastructure . When elected, claim you didnt know
So predictable. Every time .

New Zealand has international UN mandated responsibilities for the marine zone from Antarctica to the equator, from Mid Tasman Sea to half way to South America. That is why we need marine patrol aircraft. It's a regular occurrence to have the P3 Orion's fly long rescue missions to the Pacific Islands to search for missing fishermen, boats, and yachts, and the Hercules aircraft used to fly emergency aid supplies to Pacific islands and beyond...

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