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Glurp
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Topic # 242858 17-Nov-2018 11:59
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This story from RNZ is almost unbelievable. I very much doubt that the adults who approved this were intentionally trying to be insulting. That isn't the issue. The issue is their appalling ignorance and lack of judgement. It is almost inconceivable that an entire group of presumably 'normal' people could be this stupid and out of touch in this day and age. And then they compounded it by trying initially to maintain that those who reacted with shock and horror (nearly everyone with a modicum of common sense) were being excessively 'precious and pc'.

 

For those who don't get it, and I hope there are not many here, whites going around in blackface is a direct legacy of the worst aspects of the American racist deep south. It is extremely derogatory and demeaning of black people, the worst kind of insult that can be hurtled, like wrapping yourself in a confederate flag and screaming the 'N' word. Anyone who doesn't understand this is the product of a very inferior educational system indeed. 

 

 

 

 





I reject your reality and substitute my own. - Adam Savage
 


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  Reply # 2128478 17-Nov-2018 14:26
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To me, even though we are not born racist, racism will always be there. The harder people preach against it the more we will see.

 

It is inherent in our psych, and most will never admit to having slight racial tendencies, they will be there lurking beneath the surface.

 

I don't think it has anything to do with our educational system at all, as there have been racists, extreme racists and racist societies since Adam and Eve. 

 

I would like to see extreme racism certainly dealt with by the law, but I would also like to see tolerance taught. We are becoming less and less tolerant as time goes by, and maybe modern communication is partially to blame. 

 

Perhaps we need the worlds media to stop reporting on a lot of the meaningless events that incite a lot of less tolerant behaviors in our society.

 

I was almost incited to anger this week when most of the news outlets reported an issue with high school exams because the students didn't understand what the word "trivial" meant. Once I settled down I worked out that the media hyped it is such a way that they wanted us to react. Same thing happens in Geekzone.

 

 


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  Reply # 2128535 17-Nov-2018 15:37
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What a disgraceful and offence act. For anyone to believe it was anyway acceptable or excusable is beyond belief. Unfortunately racism is very much alive in New Zealand and it does not matter if it has been around since Adam and Eve , a term that is not definable. Education has everything to do with it, education is more than just formal at school education it starts at birth and continues throughout life. Racism is learnt it is not present at birth. For someone to become racist they have been taught it. All racism should be dealt  with and not just extreme racism, any degree of racism if in fact degrees exist is unacceptable.





Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

Using empathy takes no energy and can gain so much. Try it.

 

 


 
 
 
 


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  Reply # 2128567 17-Nov-2018 17:11
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MikeB4:

 

What a disgraceful and offence act. For anyone to believe it was anyway acceptable or excusable is beyond belief. Unfortunately racism is very much alive in New Zealand and it does not matter if it has been around since Adam and Eve , a term that is not definable. Education has everything to do with it, education is more than just formal at school education it starts at birth and continues throughout life. Racism is learnt it is not present at birth. For someone to become racist they have been taught it. All racism should be dealt  with and not just extreme racism, any degree of racism if in fact degrees exist is unacceptable.

 

 

 

 

All the best with your endeavors.


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  Reply # 2129116 19-Nov-2018 08:44
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Rikkitic:

 

This story from RNZ is almost unbelievable. I very much doubt that the adults who approved this were intentionally trying to be insulting. That isn't the issue. The issue is their appalling ignorance and lack of judgement. It is almost inconceivable that an entire group of presumably 'normal' people could be this stupid and out of touch in this day and age. And then they compounded it by trying initially to maintain that those who reacted with shock and horror (nearly everyone with a modicum of common sense) were being excessively 'precious and pc'.

 

 

 

 

Once again we see the people who are complaining about things being 'too PC' are someone acting like a twit and getting called on it.


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  Reply # 2129304 19-Nov-2018 11:04
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I had never heard the term black face, or of the associated comedy acts until seeing it in a news article a couple of years ago.

 

That said, it never occurred to me to wear face paint in imitation of another ethnic group. That just naturally seems likely to offend.

 

 





Mike

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  Reply # 2129310 19-Nov-2018 11:12
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MikeAqua:

 

I had never heard the term black face, or of the associated comedy acts until seeing it in a news article a couple of years ago.

 

That said, it never occurred to me to wear face paint in imitation of another ethnic group. That just naturally seems likely to offend.

 

 

 

 

One of my late mothers favorite television programmes, beside Corrie, was a BBC series called the Black and White Minstrels. Half the cast were black faces and half white (painted). It was a musical programme. Quite a lavish affair for its time.

 

SHow

 

 




Glurp
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  Reply # 2129376 19-Nov-2018 12:16
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There are different historical traditions, including minstrel shows, that have been blended together over time. Unfortunately, some of this was hijacked by racists in America after the civil war to caricature and lampoon black people. A result is that blackface today has acquired strong racist overtones and is regarded by African-Americans in particular as highly offensive, even though a few have also made use of it. I can't imagine any white person today with the least smidgen of common sense even thinking of going there. What the Lions did simply defies belief. They are either incredibly stupid or incredibly ignorant.

 

 





I reject your reality and substitute my own. - Adam Savage
 


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  Reply # 2129396 19-Nov-2018 12:55
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An interesting recent trend is that it's now considered racist/sexist/whateverist to simply be ignorant or naive.

 

This seems to be predicated on an assumption that there are things people 'should' know.   Although how people are supposed to know what they don't know is unclear.





Mike



Glurp
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  Reply # 2129402 19-Nov-2018 13:11
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Honestly, I think anyone with all their senses intact ought to 'know' this. Yes, there can be grey areas. No, this is not one of them.

 

 





I reject your reality and substitute my own. - Adam Savage
 


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  Reply # 2129407 19-Nov-2018 13:16
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Rikkitic:

 

What the Lions did simply defies belief. They are either incredibly stupid or incredibly ignorant.

 

 

I find myself more inclined to believe that this came from a position of ignorance and naiveté than wilful racism.

 

Reading some of the accounts of the event, the float was simply themed "Black and White" and was playing the Michael Jackson song of the same title.  A song about diversity and inclusion - the opposite of what these people are being accused of.

 

It was an extremely ill-advised venture, but I didn't get any sense that it was deliberately setting out to offend.

 

Frankly, I'd be more concerned about some of the hate-speech that this incident has elicited:

 

Newshub:

 

Mr Harawira went a step further.

 

"You know what folks? Sometimes you just got to put all your academic angst in your back pocket and just smash the racist mother**kers!" he wrote on Facebook.

 

"F***wits like this just laugh at your complaints, but they bleed like everybody else."

 

 

 

 

 




Glurp
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  Reply # 2129412 19-Nov-2018 13:36
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6FIEND:

 

I find myself more inclined to believe that this came from a position of ignorance and naiveté than wilful racism.

 

Reading some of the accounts of the event, the float was simply themed "Black and White" and was playing the Michael Jackson song of the same title.  A song about diversity and inclusion - the opposite of what these people are being accused of.

 

It was an extremely ill-advised venture, but I didn't get any sense that it was deliberately setting out to offend.

 

Frankly, I'd be more concerned about some of the hate-speech that this incident has elicited:

 

Newshub:

 

Mr Harawira went a step further.

 

"You know what folks? Sometimes you just got to put all your academic angst in your back pocket and just smash the racist mother**kers!" he wrote on Facebook.

 

"F***wits like this just laugh at your complaints, but they bleed like everybody else."

 

 

 

I wouldn't hold him up as a bastion of good sense either. I agree that ignorance had more to do with this than prejudice. I think I even pointed that out. What appalled me and still does, is the depth of the ignorance. This gets passed on to the next generation. It is like raising your kids on sweets and thinking you are doing them a favour. There really is no excuse for it.

 

 





I reject your reality and substitute my own. - Adam Savage
 


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  Reply # 2129449 19-Nov-2018 14:29
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Rikkitic:

 

Honestly, I think anyone with all their senses intact ought to 'know' this. Yes, there can be grey areas. No, this is not one of them.

 

 

It's absolutely wrong if you know. But if you don't know, you don't know.  When we do know something it seems implausible that other people don't know it.

 

Personally I would expect any reasonable person to know that crude racial caricatures are likely to offend.  But perhaps that is just me imposing my thinking on others.

 

They may have been ignorant of the offence they would cause.  Seeing as they responded by saying something like "don't be so PC", I guess we will never know.

 

 

 

 





Mike

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  Reply # 2129475 19-Nov-2018 14:57
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Newshub:

 

Mr Harawira went a step further.

 

"You know what folks? Sometimes you just got to put all your academic angst in your back pocket and just smash the racist mother**kers!" he wrote on Facebook.

 

"F***wits like this just laugh at your complaints, but they bleed like everybody else."

 

 

His keyboard talks tough.





Mike

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  Reply # 2129782 19-Nov-2018 19:27
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This is racist absolutely and disgraceful. Anyone who believes it is not is compounding it and need to learn the history.




Mike
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The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

Using empathy takes no energy and can gain so much. Try it.

 

 


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  Reply # 2130078 20-Nov-2018 11:16
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MikeB4: This is racist absolutely and disgraceful. Anyone who believes it is not is compounding it and need to learn the history.

 

I can see what @MikeAqua is saying though. Of course, in this instance it would show a tremendous level of ignorance to claim that they didn't know it would be perceived as racist.

 

As a less extreme example I know some older people who will refer to a black person as a "negro" or "dark fellow". They mean no offense by it at all, they just seem completely unaware that these are no longer appropriate terms. However, they know that the other N word is racist and they would never use it.

 

So it does raise the question - is genuine ignorance a defense?


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