'Forced' tipping by EFTPOS

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Forums › Finance and wealth management › 'Forced' tipping by EFTPOS

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#3198790 22-Feb-2024 15:22

When we first went to the states (20+ years ago), a standard tip was 10%, although the exchange rate was horrendous, it was liveable extra cost (even though the server was just basically doing their job), went again in 2017 with family, it was then up to 15% and this was the low option on the terminal, with 20, 25 & custom available). When back in vegas last year, 18 was now the starting point.

I've seen it occasionally on terminals (notably at high end restaurants and ones in popular tourist spots in Christchurch), but alwasy bypass / enter nil. Really don't want to go down the path of being expected to tip, just for someone to do the thing they were hired to do to begin with.

I have no doubt hospitality is a grueling industry, late hours and dealing with customers (especially difficult ones) can't be much fun, but it should be up to the employer to charge a fair price for the food to enable them to pay a fair wage to the employee

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#3198798 22-Feb-2024 15:53

The difference between the US and here is that in the US the staff are not paid a living wage and are dependent on the tip. It is really a bad system, but given how it is - I wouldn't feel right about not tipping.

Trying to introduce it here where the staff is paid a living wage is something completely different.

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Handsomedan

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#3198801 22-Feb-2024 16:14

The US can keep its tipping culture and their terrible hangover from the post-war era where they don't pay hospitality workers fairly for a day's work, forcing them to rely on tips.

Like others have said, if I am being strongly encouraged to tip, I will walk. You'll lose me as a customer if you make me feel uncomfortable about tipping.

Tipping functionality has been available in hospo on merchant terminals for a long time - in NZ it was always seen as an unnecessary feature that was rarely (if ever) activated.

My general reaction, to being asked if I'd like to tip:

two pictures with words that say nooo, noooooo

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#3198811 22-Feb-2024 17:05

wellygary:

Hospo staffing in the US is basically servitude .. tips get used to make up your wages to the minimum, its not a "nice little bonus" in effect the employer takes it....

From the US department of Labour

"A tipped employee engages in an occupation in which he or she customarily and regularly receives more than $30 per month in tips. An employer of a tipped employee is only required to pay $2.13 per hour in direct wages if that amount combined with the tips received at least equals the federal minimum wage."

https://www.dol.gov/general/topic/wages/wagestips

https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/state/minimum-wage/tipped

read that, probably half the states are above the minimum federal wage

Jase2985

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#3198812 22-Feb-2024 17:05

Something interesting, California’s minimum wage for the state’s 500,000 fast-food workers will increase to $20 per hour ($32.3 NZD) up from $16 in 2022.

mattwnz

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#3198815 22-Feb-2024 17:10

Jase2985:

Something interesting, California’s minimum wage for the state’s 500,000 fast-food workers will increase to $20 per hour ($32.3 NZD) up from $16 in 2022.

They are a very left wing state though. The actual federal minimum wage is about $7.25, and appears to be that in more right wing states like Texas. This is low when you consider that the average wage in the US is a lot more than it is in NZ

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#3198822 22-Feb-2024 17:24

wellygary: "A tipped employee engages in an occupation in which he or she customarily and regularly receives more than $30 per month in tips. An employer of a tipped employee is only required to pay $2.13 per hour in direct wages if that amount combined with the tips received at least equals the federal minimum wage."

https://www.dol.gov/general/topic/wages/wagestips

Absolutely correct but individual states can effectively override this in different ways and a number do exactly that. Edit: Jase2985 provided part of detail above.

OldGeek

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#3198826 22-Feb-2024 17:39

Another angle on the USA experience and why the automated tipping should be resisted. I lived in Philadelphia from 89-92. There were restaurants in New York where front-of-house staff tendered for their jobs - i.e. paid the restaurant to work there. Said restaurants had a minimum tip of $US100 (ie probably $200 by now). This is an absurd example of where the universal practice of tipping can lead.

The reality was that the price of dishes on the menu in USA restaurants is 'at the kitchen servery' - that can only be accessed by your server (who requires tips).

There is also the issue of how electronic payment of tips is handled. Only restaurant management administering payment card settlement know how much tipping revenue there is. If you choose to tip electronically there is every prospect the restaurant will keep at least some of your tip - how is anyone (including staff) to know otherwise.

At least with a tipping jar, the cash is likely to be cleared on every shift and goes directly to staff.

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tehgerbil

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#3198828 22-Feb-2024 17:50

This is really freaking dangerous and deserves all of the attention and anger it deserves.

I've seen a few kiwis defending this online.

A couple myths I'd like to dispel here which will hopefully help change peoples minds defending this practise..

1 - New Zealand employers must contractually pay a base rate of minimum wage.

Wrong.

Employers may legally stipulate a subminimum wage, with the difference to be made up through employee efforts (e.g. incentives and bonuses) or boosted to minimum wage by the employer, whatever is greater.

From my personal experience:

Noel Leemings regularly employs this tactic on their sales staff to incentivise additional add-on sales through extended warranties, overpriced cables and cleaning products. During my time there we received $5 towards our pay for every $40 cleaning pack.

If you've ever bought a warranty or product add-on check the receipt - You'll see any discount was removed from the big ticket item and not the add-on as if they were discounted past a certain amount you lost the 'spiv' as it was called.

2 - Employers are legally bound to ensure tips go to staff.

Wrong.

In New Zealand and Australia there are no laws which dictate tips are paid to the staff, the employer may legally take all the tips.

Better still we already have one of the most lax laws governing wage theft (hint - It's not a crime as defined by law) and it's utterly rife especially in hospo.

Furthermore many employers have proven given half a chance they're willing to illegally charge customers more through the CC surcharges to skim the cream of the top for no extra effort on their behalf.

This is a really dangerous path to go down and something every single kiwi should be steadfastly against.

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#3198832 22-Feb-2024 18:10

Shopping at Farmers using a credit card a while ago I was asked to donate to Breast Cancer via eftpos. I don’t like it as we already donate and certainly not for tipping at a restaurant. Most times we leave a tip for the waiters in cash under a plate as most are students or immigrants and I know they are low paid.

There's no way I will tip via a card because there’s the chance that the owner will keep most or all of it since it goes into an account the owner controls. I’m pretty sure the owner doesn’t share the bank account details with staff.

What happens at take away shops. Are they also going to have this system.

tweake

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#3198833 22-Feb-2024 18:20

the thing that annoys me with this is you can bet the staff won't get the tips.

i know a few guys is usa and the whole point of tips is cash. its undeclared income, off the books. which of course makes eftpos pointless, and kiwis love eftpos.

so overall, its just a scam by the shop to get more out of you.

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#3198837 22-Feb-2024 18:40

tehgerbil: A couple myths I'd like to dispel here which will hopefully help change peoples minds defending this practise..

1 - New Zealand employers must contractually pay a base rate of minimum wage.

Wrong.

Employers may legally stipulate a subminimum wage, with the difference to be made up through employee efforts (e.g. incentives and bonuses) or boosted to minimum wage by the employer, whatever is greater.

From my personal experience:

Noel Leemings regularly employs this tactic on their sales staff

I don't doubt your personal experience of this. Can you provide any reference to show the practice you describe is legal in New Zealand?

gregmcc

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#3198845 22-Feb-2024 19:02

I would be quite happy to be presented with the option of tipping on EFTPOS......provided that there was the option to negatively tip the same positive amount.....Some customer service is quite bad and there should be the option to reflect this.

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#3198855 22-Feb-2024 20:09

Senecio:

If the Eftpos machine tries to prompt me for a tip I just hand it back to them and ask "how do I skip this?".

You could do that to make your point - but 0% will always be an option.

Sometimes I just sit and think. Other times I just sit.

K8Toledo

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#3198860 22-Feb-2024 20:35

floydbloke:

I’m all for tipping for ‘over and above’ service. It has its place to show appreciation for a job well done.

However, the introduction of EFTPOS machines that ask the customer if they would like to leave a tip, and suggesting amounts, triggers my grumpy middle-aged-man mode. To the extent that if I had received service that, in my view, warranted a tip, and I'm presented with a 'begging' prompt, it turns me off sufficiently to now not leave one. It might even stop me from patronising that establishment in future.

Just to add, I'm talking about here in NZ, I appreciate in other cultures tipping is the norm and you may even be financially disadvantaging workers by not tipping, so when visiting there I happily conform.

Speaking of culture and grumpy middle-aged-man mode. Can we stop with all this American malarkey being pushed upon us. In the last couple of decades we’ve seen Halloween, Black Friday sales and probably more. Now this.

Anyway, what do others think.

The tipping prompt could be easily disabled in settings. I doubt it's enabled by default, so blame the merchants not the machines, I say.....

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