Sky TV on HTPC (legally!) without a STB

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469 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 35

#160831 29-Aug-2008 23:59

BarTender:
RustyGonad: If anyone has a hardware based CAM/CI working under Vista this would get around all of this.

I don't think any legit CAM/CI exists for NDS, I did see in my travels that someone made a dodgy version of one of the Dragon CAM's (Reloaded??) tha work work with the Sky boxes in the UK... who knows that may work. But still with a CI, you would need a PCI DVB-S card which would have a CI slot in it, so you would plug Smartcard -> CAM -> DVB-S CI Slot. So you would need a valid subscription card per Tuner.

Yes I know this is rather old but though I might as well reply... I believe there are legit CAMs for NDS, for Sky Italia but the design of NDS.Videoguard is such that these don't work with any other NDS systems. These legit CAMs exist because of Italian competition law. This may be the case in some other countries too I think. This is also supported by wikipedia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VideoGuard (article is pretty crap, it's mostly unreferenced)

Unfortunately I don't think the Commerce Commision or government is likely to do anything like that here anytime soon. Incidentally, has anyone ever actually complained to the CC that Sky is abusing payTV monopoly to try and gain a monopoly in the PVR market?

eXDee

4033 posts

Uber Geek
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Trusted

#160857 30-Aug-2008 11:30

Nil Einne: Did anyone ever manage to contact the NDScam author to see if he/she would be willing to try an add support for the NZ 17xx cards? I'm guessing he/she may need one as a sample, so the next time someone trying to get a NZ 45xx card 'loses' their NZ 17xx card it would be good if they volunteer it :-P

I tried, never got a reply. PM me if you wanna have a go at it yourself.

Nil Einne

469 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 35

#160867 30-Aug-2008 12:23

I was looking into this more and found out they usually modify the Jaycar reder somewhat in Australia even with NDS http://omcentre.com.au/Getting-Pay-TV-to-Work-With-MythTV.102.0.html. So i'm wondering, did anyone try this with the Jaycar reader and NZ 17xx cards?

More info on why it's done here http://www.austech.info/programmers/4340-testing-jaycar-mkii-phoenix-there-easy-way-2.html

WaffleMakerMan

138 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 2

#160960 30-Aug-2008 23:05

When the 17xx card was tried at Rustys did the ATR come up? If so then based on what those forums are saying theres a good chance the mod will work.

gareth41

742 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 79

#160967 31-Aug-2008 00:20

i have a special version of ndscam from joker which does the 17xx cards, he gave me a few files to test out one night with altdvb, all seems to work ok apart from glitching every 10 seconds, anyone else got gliches every 10 secs? ive also tried media portal tv server but ndscam keeps defaulting to the first CA (0x096A) on the list which is for the 45xx cards, i have to go into the ndscam monitor and manually select the second CA (0x0969) which is for the 17xx cards, i also still get the 10 second glitches in media portal, im using the jaycar reader too. atleast wtih altdvb theres the option to swap the CA's around so ndscam defaults to the second one (0x0969) for the 17xx cards. however if i record the whole encrypted TS stream, including all pid's, i can then use this program http://joshyfun.peque.org/OfflineDescrambler/index.html along with ndscam to descramble the TS stream after recording, i can then play the resulting TS file in powerdvd without any problems and no glitches

Nil Einne

469 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 35

#160971 31-Aug-2008 01:29

gareth41:
i have a special version of ndscam from joker which does the 17xx cards, he gave me a few files to test out one night with altdvb, all seems to work ok apart from glitching every 10 seconds, anyone else got gliches every 10 secs?? ive also tried media portal tv server but ndscam keeps defaulting to the first CA (0x096A) on the list which is for the 45xx cards, i have to go into the ndscam monitor and manually select the second CA (0x0969) which is for the 17xx cards,?i also still get the 10 second glitches in media portal,?im using the jaycar reader too.? atleast wtih?altdvb theres the option to swap the CA's around so ndscam defaults to?the second one (0x0969) for the 17xx cards.? however if i record the whole encrypted TS stream, including all pid's, i can then use this program http://joshyfun.peque.org/OfflineDescrambler/index.html?along with ndscam to descramble the TS stream after recording, i can then play the resulting TS file in powerdvd without any problems and no glitches

Is this a completely ordinary 17xx card? Or does it only work if there is something 'unusual' about the 17xx card? From your previous post in another thread, it sounds like it was the later

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LennonNZ

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#160994 31-Aug-2008 10:11

Nil Einne:
gareth41:
i have a special version of ndscam from joker which does the 17xx cards, he gave me a few files to test out one night with altdvb, all seems to work ok apart from glitching every 10 seconds, anyone else got gliches every 10 secs?? ive also tried media portal tv server but ndscam keeps defaulting to the first CA (0x096A) on the list which is for the 45xx cards, i have to go into the ndscam monitor and manually select the second CA (0x0969) which is for the 17xx cards,?i also still get the 10 second glitches in media portal,?im using the jaycar reader too.? atleast wtih?altdvb theres the option to swap the CA's around so ndscam defaults to?the second one (0x0969) for the 17xx cards.? however if i record the whole encrypted TS stream, including all pid's, i can then use this program http://joshyfun.peque.org/OfflineDescrambler/index.html?along with ndscam to descramble the TS stream after recording, i can then play the resulting TS file in powerdvd without any problems and no glitches

Is this a completely ordinary 17xx card? Or does it only work if there is something 'unusual' about the 17xx card? From your previous post in another thread, it sounds like it was the later

Yes I have seen this version as well and definately works with 17xx original cards. It was a one off release as far as I know and not supproted eally at all. as as gareth41 said its not in a state that you could watch sky 24 hours a day with.

eXDee

4033 posts

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#161002 31-Aug-2008 10:52

I hope he can get it working as well as 45XX for those who have 17XX cards. However tomorrow Mysky HDi will be installed, wish me luck in trying to convince that a 45XX card "it will work better with our mediacentre we bought" unless someones got something better (and less suss?). Then hopefully i can scrape up the cash for a jaycar reader + HVR-4000 to try and receive the HD streams.

Also, for those who have this working, how often do you have to put the card back in the STB and for how long?

Satch

1985 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 259

#161069 31-Aug-2008 18:16

Two things:

1. I do not believe you have to put your card back in the Sky STB to keep the card active.
2. I find the whole Sky in VMC thing very flakey. I keep on losing the Sky signal (I'm sure it is DVBSBridge) and have to stop and restart the DVBSBridge service to get things going again.

Has anyone got a rock solid Sky setup working with the Jaycar reader? If so, what software and software versions are you using?

gareth41

742 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 79

#161076 31-Aug-2008 19:22

Satch: Two things:

1. I do not believe you have to put your card back in the Sky STB to keep the card active.
2. I find the whole Sky in VMC thing very flakey. I keep on losing the Sky signal (I'm sure it is DVBSBridge) and have to stop and restart the DVBSBridge service to get things going again.

Has anyone got a rock solid Sky setup working with the Jaycar reader? If so, what software and software versions are you using?

I believe my set up is rock solid, apart from sky channels glitching every 10 seconds. Im using AltDVB 2.6 with a SkyStar2 dvb-s pci card and the jaycar reader. AltDVB has hardly ever crashed while ive been using it, channel change is very fast on the sky channels and the picture appears almost instantly. the skystar2 device also appears as a network device in the device manager not as a bda device. I did try ProgDVB with ndscam and had endless problems, progdvb kept crashing and sometimes i couldnt even end task/process had to do hard restart on the whole comp, this was with an avermedia dvb-s m199 bda card btw.

Nil Einne

469 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 35

#161078 31-Aug-2008 19:53

Does anyone know what the state of play is with MythTV? It evidentally works with NDS as implemented in Australia and uses stuff made for the DreamBox sasc-ng & radegast http://omcentre.com.au/Getting-Pay-TV-to-Work-With-MythTV.102.0.html

I see a number of posts such as this http://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?ForumId=34&TopicId=22576 http://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?ForumId=34&TopicId=16706 http://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?ForumId=83&TopicId=21604 the DreamBox works here albeit only with the NZ 45xx cards so I presume it should be possible to get MythTV working if someone with the expertise was willing to take whatever the're using. And has anyone tried to get someone who works on the NDS stuff on the DreamBox to make it work with the NZ17xx cards?

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taylorit

73 posts

Master Geek

#161158 1-Sep-2008 09:09

Satch: Two things:

1. I do not believe you have to put your card back in the Sky STB to keep the card active.
2. I find the whole Sky in VMC thing very flakey.? I keep on losing the Sky signal (I'm sure it is DVBSBridge) and have to stop and restart the DVBSBridge service to get things going again.

Has anyone got a rock solid Sky setup working with the Jaycar reader?? If so, what software and software versions are you using?

Mine seems to be fine, running;

NDSCAM 0.0.0.7
ProgDVB v4.89.6
DVBSbridge with v13 Update to use with ProgDVB v4.89.6
45xxx card of course
Jaycar reader (mounted internally in Media PC Case) have not had to put back in STB yet
Vista Ultimate with SP1 and TV Pack

It has probably cost me 3doz heine's, alot of grey hair but it is running. Saying that during setup it was a dog as you needed to swap between ProgDVB and DVBSbridge, and when you stop the services for DVBSbridge you need to make sure the ProgDVB.exe is ended our you get that pain in the A#!@ message when starting ProgDVB unable to start device and you have to start it manually.

I'm keen to try and get multi channel recording but are loosing hope that VMCE will deliver and will prob look at Media Portal does anyone know when ver 2 will be released..?

djaggar

78 posts

Master Geek
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Lifetime subscriber

#161222 1-Sep-2008 11:51

Nil Einne: I was looking into this more and found out they usually modify the Jaycar reder somewhat in Australia even with NDS http://omcentre.com.au/Getting-Pay-TV-to-Work-With-MythTV.102.0.html. So i'm wondering, did anyone try this with the Jaycar reader and NZ 17xx cards?

More info on why it's done here http://www.austech.info/programmers/4340-testing-jaycar-mkii-phoenix-there-easy-way-2.html

Just to avoid any confusuion, there are two quite different Jaycar card readers, the mods you mention are for the KC5361 which (from memory) allow you to both read the EEPROM on the card AND reprogram the PIC micro via a switch on the front. It's sometimes referred to the MkII as it can do this latter facility. It has a ATX power connector (similat to the one that you would find on an IDE hard drive).

The other Jaycar product (sometimes called the Mark I) is a KC5342. It only allows the EEPROM to be read in Pheonix mode. It's all you need for to read a 45 or 17 Sky card (and already has it's interface driven with a diode in a similar manner to the mod for the Mk II version). It has a standard 5mm power socket.

I have too many computers ... and you do too ... it's all my fault ;-)

NZFragger

5 posts

Wannabe Geek

#161224 1-Sep-2008 12:03

I currently am using mce 2005 to record sky using the decoder with an ir blaster but would like to record two sky channels at once and freeview as well. Am happy to change to MediaPortal.

Let me see if i understand! I am struggling to understand the physical setup you guys are using.

You no longer use your sky box instead you use a FTA reciever and card reader. Is this correct? If so what reciever are you using or does pretty much any work?

So i imagine you no longer need an ir blaster like i have in my current setup?

Then you can use NDSCam 0.0.0.7 and MDAPIFilter 2.1.4 for multi mux ability?

If i am totally wrong can you please give me a brief description of the phsical setup.

Thanks for such an informative desscusion and in advance for the help.

djaggar

78 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 1

Lifetime subscriber

#161227 1-Sep-2008 12:08

gareth41:
i have a special version of ndscam from joker which does the 17xx cards, he gave me a few files to test out one night with altdvb, all seems to work ok apart from glitching every 10 seconds, anyone else got gliches every 10 secs? ive also tried media portal tv server but ndscam keeps defaulting to the first CA (0x096A) on the list which is for the 45xx cards, i have to go into the ndscam monitor and manually select the second CA (0x0969) which is for the 17xx cards, i also still get the 10 second glitches in media portal, im using the jaycar reader too. atleast wtih altdvb theres the option to swap the CA's around so ndscam defaults to the second one (0x0969) for the 17xx cards. however if i record the whole encrypted TS stream, including all pid's, i can then use this program http://joshyfun.peque.org/OfflineDescrambler/index.html along with ndscam to descramble the TS stream after recording, i can then play the resulting TS file in powerdvd without any problems and no glitches

The only way I could rid of those glitches was to use a 45 card in the Jaycar reader (KC5342). In the Infinity USB programmer the 45 card also glitches. In both the Infinity and the JayCar reader the 17 card glitches. Its just bizzare.

I've tried different version of the MDAPIfilter (right up until very latest ones that require GBPVR tweaks) and a recent deccsa.dll. Both myThearte and GBPVR glitch, but I think MyThearte is actually worse ...

This makes me think it is just a marginal performance thing - that machine has only a 3.2 P4 and a ATI 2400 gx card that won't do HW acceleration correctly. I could try it all on a 9750 Phenom based box to see if NDScam might want a whole core all to itself

Stupidly, it has just occured to me to see if recording without watching live still glitches - that would unload the machine sufficiently. I'll try shortly ...

Lastly, the 17x card is very unreliable when switching CA, on either reader, in fact so unreliable I didn't think it worked at all for some time and gave up on it. A little more playing around yesterday and it worked about 2 times out of 20 (the 45 card is rock solid) - I'm not sure what the issue is - the serial port seems to die altogether and a reboot seem to be the only cure (NDScam log says it can no longer read the serial port).

I have too many computers ... and you do too ... it's all my fault ;-)

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