I've done a bit more reading about various issues and so far it's shaping up as: G10 - great unit - shame about the unwatchable 24p flicker. V10 - great unit - shame about the automatic progressive loss of black level. V20 - great unit - shame about the price!
[engage ramble mode]
As for the possibility of getting a 720p model - yeah - I thought along those lines too, but the 1080 would give me more options for better quality in the near future as I don't want to have to "upgrade" from it any time soon. In particular, the probability of getting a BD player is high, and it may even be that I try with a really tall antenna and succeed in picking up Freeview HD (some of which is 1080i, I believe). There may also be internet sourced material in HD. Finally, there may be the possibility of using the panel as an additional computer monitor from time to time.
I also asked Panasonic if any models had built-in sat tuners - the answer was "no", but I too have read that the G10(?) does, at least in the UK. Whether the G10Bs do and the G10Zs don't, I wasn't able to establish.
My budget was initially $2k at a push. If I push a lot harder I can maybe reach $2.8k.
The 42U20 [$1450, but as low as $1290 in recent weeks] - hmmmm - maybe get the cheapy now and pick up a 50V20 in a year when they are being cleared out.
The 50G10 [$2k] - still the front-runner I think - big, and I can probably live with jittery credits with 3:2 pulldown instead of the 48Hz/24p flicker. Finding a new-in-box one may be an issue.
The 42V20 [$2190] - only issue is size - the "rules" say I actually need 55+!
The 50V10 [$2.4k] - I'm quite disconcerted by the floating black issue - there are a lot of pissed off people out there.
The 46V20 [$2.7k] - well - that could be a starter too. I know the watchword is "big", but even 42 seems big to me. I could get TWO 42U20s for the same price as a 46V20.
The 50V20 [$3.2k] - too expensive for me, but in 9 months it'll be down by 30-40%.
xarqi: I've done a bit more reading about various issues and so far it's shaping up as: G10 - great unit - shame about the unwatchable 24p flicker.
The effects of flicker are entirely personal. Some people are not bothered by 48Hz flicker, some find even 96Hz isn't good enough. Your mileage may vary.
xarqi: V10 - great unit - shame about the automatic progressive loss of black level.
Its not just the V10. The G10 and all 2010 model lines manufactured before April are affected.
xarqi: The 50V10 [$2.4k] - I'm quite disconcerted by the floating black issue - there are a lot of pissed off people out there.
The loss of black issue and the floating black issue are two entirely different things. Floating black is a 'pumping' of the black level observed in dark scenes where the black gets darker and brighter as you watch. Very distracting for those who notice it. The 2009 models (V10, G10 etc) do not suffer the floating black issue.
If you do go full HD then do plan on getting a bluray player at the same time.
In my opinion the concept of deminishing returns does apply here. You can spend a lot or a little on a TV but as has been mentioned above, you also have to seriously weigh up how much weight you apply to online reviews as well. Nothing is going to beat your own eyes when you could spend all day worrying over values on spec sheets.
Ha go big too while you are at it. (I think you need to go projector big to get that real wow factor, but that doesn't mean you should just settle for any small size with a TV.)
Right - decision! 50G10. Pro: THX, 50", no floating black issue, price not too painful Con: Progressive black loss (but to avoid it I'd need to go for a recent V20 and so either just a 42" or the very top of my budget for a 46") Neutral: I can live with the 24p thing I expect, and if there is a sat tuner, that'd be a big bonus
Runner-up if I can't find one? Probably the 50V10.
None of those either? Pffft - I'll get a 42 or 46 U20 and look again in a year or two.
Now I just have to wait until my finances settle (or not), and argue with myself over whether spending $2k on a toy is really justifiable at all, and maybe I should just get a 42X10Z for $900 and consider myself fortunate - even that would be a big step up from my 27" CRT!
Thanks to all for the help. I'll report back if and when I go ahead, but it'll be a few weeks at least I expect.
Further comments are of course very welcome, but I don't want to hog the thread too much.
Do you believe that... without actually reading the reviews on-line... that you'd ever notice 'floating blacks', dropping black levels or indeed 24p flicker? I think there are very, very few people who would. However, it's a lot like audio related issues. People only ever notice 'improved mids / better detail' etc when someone tells them it's there to listen to.
The old story still runs true. Buy it, enjoy it - and stop looking at new TV's immediately afterwards, or you'll never be truly happy. My $0.10.
Do you believe that... without actually reading the reviews on-line... that you'd ever notice 'floating blacks', dropping black levels or indeed 24p flicker?
Frankly, yes, I probably would, I think. I am a bit of a stickler for quality, and do tend to notice small things. I couldn't be sure that I would though.
The thing is, I can't be sure that I wouldn't, and I'd be foolish to ignore the experience of others.
Why not a 50" U20? It's performance will be better than the G10 and similar to a v20 in a dark room, the V20 smashes it in a light room though due to the better filter. To avoid the black level loss you can also go for another brand of plasma... There's no sat tuner on the G10 sold in NZ.
Me personally, I have a crush on the 50" V20 and am trying to come up with a devious scheme to obtain the funds for one :P
Desktop: i7 920, GTX 275, asus P6T, antec 1200, 6gb ram, 1tb spinpoint f1, 1tb spinpoint f3, Logitech Z2300, Zero DAC, Shure SRH440 Laptop: Toshiba satellite, T5300, Go 7300 Home Theatre: 32" loewe CRT, Harmon kardon amp, dvd player, image 418 speakers, rega planar 25 turntable :)
samwooff: Why not a 50" U20? It's performance will be better than the G10 and similar to a v20 in a dark room, the V20 smashes it in a light room though due to the better filter. To avoid the black level loss you can also go for another brand of plasma... There's no sat tuner on the G10 sold in NZ.
Me personally, I have a crush on the 50" V20 and am trying to come up with a devious scheme to obtain the funds for one :P
Why not a 50U20? Oversight on my part! Put that one in 3= place with the other U20s. Maybe part of the mental block was that since I don't really want a U (the neoPDP thing mostly - not sure if that is rational) I'm a bit more reluctant to spend my full budget. That said, it's only $120 more than the 46U20, so yeah - it's a contender. Thanks.
"Another brand of plasma" :shock: There's ANOTHER brand??? ;) I guess I'm a bit of a die-hard Panasonic fan. My biggest peeve is that they didn't have a spare power supply module for my 20 year old VCR.
Thanks for the update on the G10 sat tuner. Bummer. Not a deal breaker, but it would have been handy as my satellite PVR is a single tuner model so I can't watch material from a different transponder while it's recording. Still, an $80 super-duper compressed rice-paper STB off TradeMe would fix that, mostly.
As for the 50V20 - absolutely! Alas, there's no way I can stretch to $3k+.
Hahaha, fair enough. If buying a tv was a fully rational process I'm sure we'd all be looking at a 22" screen lol.
Yes, there are, namely samsung and pioneer (can't be many left now...). I too prefer panasonic usually but when samsung prices their 50" c450 at $1300 it makes me think twice because although it comes off 2nd best with a U20 it's not by much.
Why not try get a better price on the v20 if you lust after it like I do, after all prices for the 50" g10 went from $4,000+ to under $3000 within a few months last year, try some good ol' fashioned haggling and see what happens but of course that goes for any tv you buy.
Desktop: i7 920, GTX 275, asus P6T, antec 1200, 6gb ram, 1tb spinpoint f1, 1tb spinpoint f3, Logitech Z2300, Zero DAC, Shure SRH440 Laptop: Toshiba satellite, T5300, Go 7300 Home Theatre: 32" loewe CRT, Harmon kardon amp, dvd player, image 418 speakers, rega planar 25 turntable :)
Yeah - I sort of have that in mind as a possibility - make do with a U20 in the meantime (another reason for spending less on it by getting a smaller unit and thus reducing loss by depreciation), and in 9 months look for a soon-to-be-obsolete 50V20. Of course, then I'll likely be drooling over the 50VT30, and odd 'problems' will have been reported for the 50V20!
i ended up buying a sony 46ex500 before world cup finals. happy with it as long as u sit down, in front.
i'm considering a second tv, leaning towards a 42 inch plasma, mainly because of better viewing angles, but frankly nothing is a no brainer at this stage.
funny how NZ$ keeps rising and you don't see these imported goods dropping price as well.
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