The Herald poll on 3G networks...

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131 posts

Master Geek

#179773 23-Nov-2008 23:45

NonprayingMantis:
manhinli: Here is a billboard I took a picture of outside Botany Town Centre (this has also been posted on their own forum, but I decided to also to post it here for you guys to make your minds up)

nice bit of text in the bottom corner saying 'based on WCDMA coverage'

How twattish is it to say "we have the best widgit in the country....if you only include our version of the widgit in the comparisons, and exclude other people's far superior versions of widgits"

Of course white text on a white background isn't well known for standing out too well either.

I think that disclaimer is irrelevant, and it is almost as if it is not there. Firstly it is intentionally written in white, with a white background, so you can bearly read it, if at all. Secondly would 95% of people reading that even know what WCDMA actaully meant and the difference between that and what is used on telecoms network. I think vodafone marketing people made a error in judgement.

It is like Toyota saying, 'We make the Fastest cars in the world'. And in fine print it says 'Fastest based on cars with a Toyota engine'

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#179776 23-Nov-2008 23:49

At the risk of stoking the fires: If you use Vodafones flagship device the iPhone 3G, you'll get better WCDMA coverage on Telecoms 850mhz network (97% according to the Telecom website) verses Vodafone 2100mhz network (63% according to NZ herald article).

Yes - this was posted in another thread.

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#179782 24-Nov-2008 06:46

cokemaster: At the risk of stoking the fires: If you use Vodafones flagship device the iPhone 3G, you'll get better WCDMA coverage on Telecoms 850mhz network (97% according to the Telecom website) verses Vodafone 2100mhz network (63% according to NZ herald article).

Yes - this was posted in another thread.

Well the big question then is does the population coverage of Telecom's new WCDMA network actually does surpass Vodafone's claimed 63% population. My understandins is that it does. The catch here is that the Telecom network is only in a test phase and not available to the general public but it does exist and is functioning.
.

NonprayingMantis

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#179809 24-Nov-2008 09:57

robbypreb:
NonprayingMantis:
manhinli: Here is a billboard I took a picture of outside Botany Town Centre (this has also been posted on their own forum, but I decided to also to post it here for you guys to make your minds up)

nice bit of text in the bottom corner saying 'based on WCDMA coverage'

How twattish is it to say "we have the best widgit in the country....if you only include our version of the widgit in the comparisons, and exclude other people's far superior versions of widgits"

Of course white text on a white background isn't well known for standing out too well either.

I think that disclaimer is irrelevant, and it is almost as if it is not there. Firstly it is intentionally written in white, with a white background, so you can bearly read it, if at all. Secondly would 95% of people reading that even know what WCDMA actaully meant and the difference between that and what is used on telecoms network. I think vodafone marketing people made a error in judgement.
It is like Toyota saying, 'We make the Fastest cars in the world'. And in fine print it says 'Fastest based on cars with a Toyota engine'

Maybe Telecom should release a new ad:
“Telecom has by far the cheapest mobile calling, texting, and data in New Zealand.”

And then in small print, white text on white background,

“claims based on CDMA network comparisons”

And since voda doesn’t have a CDMA network, the claims will be fully justified according to Paul Brislen’s impeccable logic.

bbman

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#179810 24-Nov-2008 10:03

Yeah the Iphone will be a good example in the next year or so of 850mhz dominance in the 3g market but that will change and 900mhz devices will be just as widely available.

I have to say the FUD is really starting to open up, i have been recieving calls from all sorts of business customers of late who are with both networks for voice and for data. They have been visited several times by the pretty young Voda rep and have had some interesting facts and figures presented to them by that said rep. I am finding that an all to common thing right now and many of my clients are asking me to verify the FUD all to often.

Hey look Telecom are not free from being FUD providers either but as Telecom reps have never had the hardware or service abilities that the opposition has had now and in the past they have avoided the BS game, especially in my neck of the woods, it costs you customers, shame the pretty young rep is unaware of that!

Now the Vodafone marketing team have launched FUD campaign.... why, because they have a limited time before the market is alight with real choice and competition from a like if not better option so they need to make the most of the opportunity window that exists right now before it closes!

Finally its about time 3G was de branded...... 3rd Generation mobile in theory includes 1xRTT / EVDO / UMTS / EDGE etc and the use of this as a way of marketing FUD is poor.

Now geeks know the difference but the person on the street looking at the out and out blatant FUD advertisement from Vodafone do not.

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brentbart

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#179840 24-Nov-2008 11:26

bbman: Yeah the Iphone will be a good example in the next year or so of 850mhz dominance in the 3g market but that will change and 900mhz devices will be just as widely available.

Not sure about that?? there are less than 70 850mhz networks worldwide, with none in Europe .. .but over 520 900mhz networks. Off topic I know, just a FYI

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#179841 24-Nov-2008 11:32

bbman: Now the Vodafone marketing team have launched FUD campaign.... why, because they have a limited time before the market is alight with real choice and competition from a like if not better option so they need to make the most of the opportunity window that exists right now before it closes!

Yeah, well their marketing slogan is:

Make the most of now

so I guess that's no surprise

bbman: Finally its about time 3G was de branded...... 3rd Generation mobile in theory includes 1xRTT / EVDO / UMTS / EDGE etc and the use of this as a way of marketing FUD is poor.

I just checked Voda's 3G coverage maps here and used the coverage checking tool here to see if there is any improvement in Northland yet. Sadly, NOT, there is still minimal coverage around Whangarei (the nearest major centre), and no sign at all of any coverage in the Bay of Islands even in Kerikeri (the nearest major town) or Paihia (a beach resort).

These areas will see a huge influx of Aucklanders during the next couple of months and yet the best data service they can get from Voda is GPRS

This situation hasn't changed at all since 2003.

Whereas with my Sierra Wireless card on Telecom's EV-DO Rev.A network I have been enjoying 3G Mobile Broadband at 600kbps to 1Mbps download for the past 2 years. My 2-year contract comes up for renewal next year, and still after all this time, Vodafone have no Mobile Broadband offering in our area. Unless something radical changes, I'll be signing up for a new T-Stick by the look of it. A Vodem is about as much use in our locality as t1ts on a bull

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#179850 24-Nov-2008 11:59

brentbart:
bbman: Yeah the Iphone will be a good example in the next year or so of 850mhz dominance in the 3g market but that will change and 900mhz devices will be just as widely available.

Not sure about that?? there are less than 70 850mhz networks worldwide, with none in Europe .. .but over 520 900mhz networks. Off topic I know, just a FYI

But how many of those 900MHz networks are GSM and how many of those 900MHz networks are WCDMA? Most of the WCDMA networks are 2100 MHz or 1900 MHz.

Those 900 MHz being used by GSM can only be used by WCDMA when the spectrum is free. To free the spectrum it means reducing GSM coverage, which is hard to do because the number of GSM handsets seems to be bigger than the number of WCDMA handsets.

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#179855 24-Nov-2008 12:07

freitasm:
brentbart:
bbman: Yeah the Iphone will be a good example in the next year or so of 850mhz dominance in the 3g market but that will change and 900mhz devices will be just as widely available.

Not sure about that?? there are less than 70 850mhz networks worldwide, with none in Europe .. .but over 520 900mhz networks. Off topic I know, just a FYI

But how many of those 900MHz networks are GSM and how many of those 900MHz networks are WCDMA? Most of the WCDMA networks are 2100 MHz or 1900 MHz.

Those 900 MHz being used by GSM can only be used by WCDMA when the spectrum is free. To free the spectrum it means reducing GSM coverage, which is hard to do because the number of GSM handsets seems to be bigger than the number of WCDMA handsets.

WCDMA at 900mhz networks could be counted on your hand versus 24 operational 850mhz networks and several in build stage not including Telecoms. 900mhz is in its early stages, expect it to take off towards the end of next year once the financial crisis subsides.

The Iphone is built for 850/1900/2100 3G due to At&t and other key partners running 3G in 850/1900 in north americal and internationally in 2100mhz.

see this link as to why a new version will have to be launched to support 900mhz http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies-archive.cfm/991986.html

It is a likely out come towards the end of next year that a standard and Euro version will be released but in the mean time 2100 serves well in Europe and 850/1900 in the US market.

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patdude

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#179888 24-Nov-2008 14:15

There's a whole lot of potential confusion around spectrum vs mobile technologies.. Sure there are an awful lot of 900Mhz networks, but nearly all of these are 2G/2.5G (GSM/GPRS/Edge) only.... The good news though is that either way you debate things, there's going to be a whole more mobile broadband to go around, especially out in the sticks as well as in the main centres... I guess we all win.

bbman

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#179894 24-Nov-2008 14:21

patdude:
There's a whole lot of potential confusion around spectrum vs mobile technologies.. Sure there are an awful lot of 900Mhz networks, but nearly all of these are 2G/2.5G (GSM/GPRS/Edge) only.... The good news though is that either way you debate things, there's going to be a whole more mobile broadband to go around, especially out in the sticks as well as in the main centres... I guess we all win.

Totally in the nose... yeah we all win, Telecom will be happy to not have to wholesale mobile broadband to cherry pickers and letches and Vodafone will finally have a decent mobile broadband network and not just a story..

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#179940 24-Nov-2008 16:19

bbman: Totally in the nose... yeah we all win, Telecom will be happy to not have to wholesale mobile broadband to cherry pickers and letches and Vodafone will finally have a decent mobile broadband network and not just a story..

LOL - Don't let facts get in the way of a good story

Good to see Vodafone are investing so heavily in CDMA (with an extra 'W'), a version of the superior mobile technology that Telecom has been providing since 2001.

Only EVDO works 35,000 feet. The only thing from WCDMA that makes it to that altitude is hot air!

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#179959 24-Nov-2008 17:07

freitasm:
Those 900 MHz being used by GSM can only be used by WCDMA when the spectrum is free. To free the spectrum it means reducing GSM coverage, which is hard to do because the number of GSM handsets seems to be bigger than the number of WCDMA handsets.

And within the EU there are not only spectrum issues (remember that it's common to have at least 3 900 GSM networks in some countries) but that in many EU countries the spectrum bands are technology specific, ie 900 licences were sold only for GSM techology and the use of WCDMA in that same 900 spectrum is not permitted.

There need to be changes made before networks can actually deploy different technology such as WCDMA.

JoeBloggs

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#179981 24-Nov-2008 17:51

When Paul and Mauricio get into the carrier debates, I get a bag of popcorn and sit back and watch the show

manhinli

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#179987 24-Nov-2008 17:58

Here's one from their catalogue a while back (when they first launched the "Share the love" campaign)

Now that time, they were pretty generic: "We have New Zealand's largest and fastest mobile network" - that was stretching it a bit more, and looks like Vodafone have already back-pedalled on that a little bit to turn that into their "3G network".

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