The Herald poll on 3G networks...

Forums › Spark New Zealand (including Skinny and BigPipe) › The Herald poll on 3G networks...

patdude

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#28189 22-Nov-2008 00:38

Hey have you seen the NZ Heralds poll on who has the best mobile internet? Voda seem to be winning but then I guess there probably hasn't been many Geekzone telecom folk who've seen it yet? it's on the NZ Heralds tech section http://www.nzherald.co.nz/technology/news/headlines.cfm?c_id=5

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#179318 22-Nov-2008 00:47

Yes I have seen it, but it is readers perception, it doesn't mean it's true of course.

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patdude

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#179321 22-Nov-2008 00:58

This is true, ah well it'll be fun to see how the votes finally stack up...

NonprayingMantis

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#179529 23-Nov-2008 01:25

I hate when news organisations run polls.
You often see it on sky news too. Since when does the results of any poll equal truth (especially an internet poll which can be easily spoofed)?

The voda ad says "largest and fastest 3G network".
It is a fact that Telecom's EVDO 3G network has better coverage than Voda's 3G.
the voda guy in the article seems to be referring to Telecom's new network when comparing the two, but fails to recognise that Telecom's existing network has better coverage than Voda's.

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#179555 23-Nov-2008 08:47

NonprayingMantis: The voda ad says "largest and fastest 3G network". The voda guy in the article seems to be referring to Telecom's new network when comparing the two, but fails to recognise that Telecom's existing network has better coverage than Voda's.

Just the old marketing tactics. And people buy it.

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#179567 23-Nov-2008 09:56

http://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?ForumId=40&TopicId=28215&page_no=1#179553

nzbnw

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#179569 23-Nov-2008 10:20

Well that just makes Voda's whole take on it all just like a Tui add....

All Paul's comments

Telecom's own website says it will be between 2Mbit/s and 5Mbit/s download speed

from the NZ Herald, are just plain misleading, they will be average, real world speeds, not like Voda's promise 7.2 and not delivering.

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#179577 23-Nov-2008 11:10

Vodafone external communications manager Paul Brislen slammed the complaint, saying Telecom's new network won't be ready until next year.
"Fastest - yes. Largest, well Telecom is yet to build, so yes," he said. "We have no plans to change the advertising at this point."
"Our 3G network covers 70 per cent of the population Telecom's network covers zero," he continued. "Vodafone's network runs at speeds of up to 7.2Mbit/s where we've deployed HSPA, Telecom's does not. In fact, Telecom is busy talking up how fast its network will go at launch (June next year) and yet Vodafone already offers speeds far greater than Telecom is talking about for launch. Telecom's own website says it will be between 2Mbit/s and 5Mbit/s download speed."

Complete and utter rubbish. Disappointing.

Would have expected better.

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#179578 23-Nov-2008 11:16

cokemaster:
Complete and utter rubbish. Disappointing.
Would have expected better.

It's a cut throat business, so I guess Vodafone even though is telling the 'truth' it is rather a nasty campaign. Getting OT a bit aren't we, thought we're talking about the poll

Andy Ghozali Geekzone Member	E: andy@ghozali.ru M: +64 21 395 458 A: Andy's Business Services, 231 High St, Christchurch 8011, NZ
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#179579 23-Nov-2008 11:17

Hold on a second. Telecom announces a network that won't be operational until June, that apparently will be either three times faster than its existing network (if you read the initial relase here) or three times faster than Vodafone's existing network (if you read the Herald story) running HSPA+, something that won't be commercially available until December next year, and somehow Vodafone's having a Tui moment?

We are rolling out HSPA at 7.2Mbit/s right now. Today.

Or does that not count for anything?

This is what Telecom's original press release said:

Telecom is investing $574 million on a nationwide rollout of WCDMA (Wideband Code Division Multiple Access) technology, using a frequency of 850MHz (Mega Hertz), over the next two years. The benefits include competitive advantage, operational efficiencies and reduced long-run capital spending which the enhanced network proposition will deliver.

Overall, Telecom now anticipates spending $2.4 billion on capital expenditure over the next two financial years. This includes the investment already being made in world-class fixed line broadband services and a next generation network.

“These are huge, ongoing investments in New Zealand’s communications infrastructure, and underscore our commitment as a New Zealand company to bring the best quality services in the world to Kiwi homes and businesses,” said Dr Reynolds.

In addition, Telecom has committed to deploying HSPA+ (Evolved High Speed Packet Access), a leading-edge technology offering even higher broadband speeds, helping to ‘future-proof’ services for Telecom mobile customers.

Read that again. "In addition, Telecom has committed to deploying HSPA+". Not "Telecom is deploying" but "commited to deploying". The spend is spread over two years, not eight months. More than half of the network capability will be developed in the time AFTER the June launch.

Now, go to Telecom's own website and read the "Superior Network" piece of the "What's in it for me" section:

Our new network supports average speeds of 3Mbps down and 1Mbps up – that’s three times faster than our current high speed 3G network.

So, the way I read that is Telecom isn't going to be launching in June with HSPA+. And Telecom's claims of being the fastest network will already be in jeopardy because Vodafone's existing network is already capable of 7.2Mbit/s down.

And yes I realise we're talking about theoretical versus "expected" speeds.

Cheers

Paul

Paul Brislen
Head of Corporate Communications
Vodafone

http://forum.vodafone.co.nz

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#179581 23-Nov-2008 11:19

zocster:
cokemaster:
Complete and utter rubbish. Disappointing.
Would have expected better.

It's a cut throat business, so I guess Vodafone even though is telling the 'truth' it is rather a nasty campaign. Getting OT a bit aren't we, thought we're talking about the poll

No, I don't think they are "telling the truth". "3G" is not WCDMA only - and the way they talk they imply that only when Telecom new WCDMA network is up they can compare, which is not the case.

Also because even their "fast" network is not available everywhere - only a part of their HSDPA services is actually able to deliver 7.2Mbps currently, with the rest being 3.6Mbps and down.

It's all that double speak that annoys me. They hide things from uninformed users.

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#179582 23-Nov-2008 11:21

PaulBrislen: and somehow Vodafone's having a Tui moment?

But the way it's written you guys give the idea that Telecom does not currently offer a 3G service, which is the point.

Comparing speeds is fine - but outright saying that the competitor don't offer a 3G solution is just hiding it, isn't it?

When you say "Our 3G network covers 70 per cent of the population Telecom's network covers zero," I understand you are talking about 3G. If you had said "Telecom's upcoming not yet released network covers zero" then I'd say "yes, they are right comparing apples and apples". It's not the case is it?

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#179583 23-Nov-2008 11:26

freitasm:
zocster:
cokemaster:
Complete and utter rubbish. Disappointing.
Would have expected better.

It's a cut throat business, so I guess Vodafone even though is telling the 'truth' it is rather a nasty campaign. Getting OT a bit aren't we, thought we're talking about the poll

No, I don't think they are "telling the truth". "3G" is not WCDMA only - and the way they talk they imply that only when Telecom new WCDMA network is up they can compare, which is not the case.

Also because even their "fast" network is not available everywhere - only a part of their HSDPA services is actually able to deliver 7.2Mbps currently, with the rest being 3.6Mbps and down.

It's all that double speak that annoys me. They hide things from uninformed users.

I think your bias is showing again Mauricio. Nobody has said the 7.2 capability is available everywhere. It isn't. We haven't even launched it in a marketing sense BECAUSE it's not available everywhere. But it is available and customers are using it.

Telecom is the one that ruled its existing network out. Paul Reynolds described it as a technological culdesac. Telecom is now writing off its investment in it (take a look at this year's financials). There won't be any more money spent on the network - it's all going into the new network and that's as it should be.

So if Telecom can exclude it, so can we.

This is what Reynolds said in the initial press statement:

“The possibilities are endless: bidding on an online auction from your bach at Raglan; downloading music on a chairlift at Mt Ruapehu; video calling from Hokitika to a mate in Christchurch; or instant email on your mobile while on the move in a small town or big city, anywhere in New Zealand,” said Dr Reynolds."

The word "possibilities" implies that you can't do any of those things today. Vodafone offers all of that and has done since 2005.

I think your bias is showing again Mauricio.

EDIT: answering Mauricio's second post:

I said all of that when asked by the reporter. That they didn't put it in the story isn't exactly something I can control. As I said, and as our marketing says if you read it, putting aside Telecom's now terminal network, Vodafone has the largest and fastest network in the land.

Cheers

Paul

(second edit to put back line taken out by accident)

Paul Brislen
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http://forum.vodafone.co.nz

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#179585 23-Nov-2008 11:30

PaulBrislen: I think your bias is showing again Mauricio.

Everyone can have bias. My bias comes from a poor service Vodafone offered, poor coverage, poor response to my calls to their help desk.

In this specific case my bias is on the consumer side who is blinded by Vodafone's doublespeak.

I am actually tired of users that come around and say "you have bias". I have been accused of been paid by Vodafone many times, for trying to explain to some users why they were wrong - and every time you oppose someone's views then you are "biased".

We also have been accused of being paid by Telecom, Orcon, TelstraClear, WorldxChange, etc. Because of this you should have a lot more respect for us and our readers.

It's easy for Vodafone to come here and say we are biased when someone points out something wrong. I am actually sick and tired of this behaviour from you as a representative of this company here in my forums.

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#179586 23-Nov-2008 11:38

freitasm:
PaulBrislen: I think your bias is showing again Mauricio.

Everyone can have bias. My bias comes from a poor service Vodafone offered, poor coverage, poor response to my calls to their help desk.

In this specific case my bias is on the consumer side who is blinded by Vodafone's doublespeak.

I am actually tired of users that come around and say "you have bias". I have been accused of been paid by Vodafone many times, for trying to explain to some users why they were wrong - and every time you oppose someone's views then you are "biased".

It's easy for Vodafone to come here and say we are biased when someone points out something wrong. I am actually sick and tired of this behaviour from you as a representative of this company here in my forums.

Mauricio, you and I have talked repeatedly about journalism and about bias and I'm sorry but when all you can add to a discussion on 3G networks is to repeat off-topic arguments about service, coverage and responses to your needs, yes it comes across as bias.

Everyone has it - the trick is to ADMIT IT and put it out there for all to see.

I work for Vodafone. OF COURSE I'm going to be pro-Vodafone. That's my job. Simply telling people that "Vodafone sucks" over and over isn't really good journalism.

Paul Brislen
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Vodafone

http://forum.vodafone.co.nz

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#179587 23-Nov-2008 11:40

PaulBrislen: I work for Vodafone. OF COURSE I'm going to be pro-Vodafone. That's my job. Simply telling people that "Vodafone sucks" over and over isn't really good journalism.

And that's where you can't understand things: this is not journalism. This is a forum where real people post their ideas and feelings.

Until you understand this and think this is only another avenue for PR then things won't work ok.

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