GCSB declines Spark’s proposal to use Huawei 5G equipment

Forums › Spark New Zealand (including Skinny and BigPipe) › GCSB declines Spark’s proposal to use Huawei 5G equipment

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#2141229 7-Dec-2018 15:55

freitasm:

If there's one thing we know is that supply chain can be compromised. At the end of the day, good luck getting any equipment not "Made in China", regardless of manufacturer.

Well Huawei did start out as an OEM for Cisco. They only really started branching out after they lost their Cisco contract (around 2000).

IIRC there have been 5 backdoors found in recent cisco gear in the last 2 years. Some of which were discovered when NSA contractors like the Equation Group were breached and their backdoors and exploits were leaked.

Part of this is generic distrust of china, with the rest being seeding of doubt commercial gain, and lastly... probably the most ironic of all... if US companies like Cisco don't win business then Cisco equipment doesn't get deployed, potentially depriving some intelligence agencies who have previously used backdoors into Cisco and other US sourced gear. ie If you buy Huawei we can't spy on you.

wellygary

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#2141246 7-Dec-2018 16:44

vulcannz:

if US companies like Cisco don't win business then Cisco equipment doesn't get deployed, potentially depriving some intelligence agencies who have previously used backdoors into Cisco and other US sourced gear.

But the US doesn't need back doors into NZ networks, the GCSB already have keys to come in the front door...

From TICSA:

http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2013/0091/latest/whole.html

S. 9 Network operators must ensure public telecommunications networks and telecommunications services have full interception capability

(1) A network operator must ensure that every public telecommunications network that the operator owns, controls, or operates, and every telecommunications service that the operator provides in New Zealand, has full interception capability

S. 11 Interception ready

(1) A network operator that is required by or under this subpart to ensure that a network or service is intercept ready—

(a) must pre-deploy access points at suitable and sufficient concentration points on the network or service to allow an interception warrant or any other lawful interception authority relating to any of its customers to be given effect:

(b) must reserve 1 or more network interfaces (that is, delivery ports) to which interception equipment can connect in order to deliver intercepted telecommunications to the surveillance agency; and

(c) must reserve, for each reserved interface referred to in paragraph (b), sufficient bandwidth to deliver intercepted telecommunications content and call associated data to the relevant surveillance agency; and

BarTender

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#2141302 7-Dec-2018 21:04

And Japan.
https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN1O60ME

JWR

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#2141380 8-Dec-2018 02:01

Batman:

wellygary:

Batman:
freitasm:

Not necessarily. The USA takes sanctions very seriously. They could frame it as a criminal activity.

I see. But seeing that they are not putting any sanctions on Saudi anytime soon, Huawei should now sell stuff in Saudi instead.

Given their buddy-buddy relationship with the US, why would Saudi do anything with Huawei...??

.....and just to make the story even more interesting, Huawei's CFO is the Company founder's Daughter....

Why should Saudi care about the US? They are the ones with the money, they can buy from whomever the help they like

I can give you a few ...

Saudis are almost certainly wanting to sell a share of Aramco (their oil company). If they can get a good enough price. US support is needed.
They buy weapons from the US.
The US opposes Iran.
The US is a much more powerful country than Saudi Arabia.
The US tolerates (and sometimes supports) Al-Qaeda (and other wahabist organizations).

Sidestep

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#2141383 8-Dec-2018 04:35

Batman:

Why should Saudi care about the US? They are the ones with the money, they can buy from whomever the help they like

O/T, but..

When Mr Trump said - back in October - that the Saudi King wouldn't last 'two weeks' without US support, he was mentioning the Elephant in the Room.

Everyone knows the US, for economic reasons, and increasingly for geopolitical reasons, need to keep the Sauds in power.
It's a Faustian Bargain they've committed to for one major reason - Energy.

The oil shocks of the 1970's woke the world up to it's total reliance on fossil energy and fact that a random bunch of Middle Eastern countries could cut that supply in half - and devastate the world's economy - almost at will.

The US came to the conclusion it needed to have a couple of the big producers as puppet states - but one of their big bets failed.
The overthrow of the Shah caused another oil crisis, set Iran free of US influence and left the US - weirdly - with Israel and Saudi Arabia as their only 'besties'

So they're willing to overlook massive human rights abuses, political and religious interference throughout the Middle East - and the world - in exchange for Oil price stability.

They've had a few nasty blowbacks. 911 was one of them - and a continuous toll of US blood and treasure from wars throughout the Middle East.
The alternative still seems worse though.

In spite of 'fracking' leaving the US (temporarily) energy independent, if the US left the Mid East to it's own devices and the Sauds were to fall - as Trump bluntly stated - $3 petrol in NZ would seem like a distant dream. Try $10 petrol, surging import/export costs, massive worldwide inflation, and whole countries unable to feed themselves.

There's an old saying 'Those who sleep with dogs get fleas'
When the scratching gets bad enough, and other options are clearly available, I'm sure the US will have to take a long, hard look at who they're in bed with.

We can only hope that the light at the end of the tunnel is coming from Renewable, Alternative Energy, and not a potentially derailing oil train..

Sidestep

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#2141384 8-Dec-2018 05:09

Batman:

Am I reading that it's all politically motivated?

And back on topic.. Yes politically motivated.. and a political coup for the US side.

After the nastiness of the NAFTA renegotiation - where Mr Trump threatened to destroy the Canadian economy- Canada had hurriedly started to explore trade agreements with China, particularly Canadian primary industry exports and Chinese tech imports.

Hitting two birds with one stone, the US has managed to throw even more shade on Huawei, and put a spanner in the works of the nascent Canada - China free trade talks.

Ms Meng's arrest would have been a top level U.S. government decision, passed to the U.S. Department of Justice’s Office of International Affairs (OIA).

When an arrest is requested by the OIA, Canada - and all the other countries with an extradition treaty with the US - are obligated to co-operate.

(most likely) the official reason for her arrest will turn out to be her serving as a Huawei representative on the board of Hong Kong-based Skycom Tech Co Ltd.

Though called a 'partner' company by Huawei, Skycom is/was virtually a subsidiary through share ownership, board membership etc.
Skycom in 2010 tried to sell several million dollars worth of HP gear to Iran's largest mobile-phone operator - their "Mobile Telecommunication Co"

Under President Obama the US/Iran relationship was improving - and it likely seemed an opportune time for Huawei - and may other multinationals - to start dealing with Iran.
Trump has reversed all that, ostracized Iran and has launched an effort to discredit and shut out Chinese Tech firms from world markets.

There's been a lot of pressure put on Canada to dump Huawei from it's 5G plans, which they've so far held out against.

Republican and Democratic Senators wrote to Canadian PM Trudeau in October warning that not banning Huawei could "interfere with intelligence sharing and impair cross-border co-operation in telecommunications" - the same warning all the Five Eyes intelligence-sharing alliance would have received, including New Zealand.

It all shows how easy it is for the US to say 'Jump' and we all jump. As the Chinese pointed out, if they'd arranged the arrest of Facebook's COO in South Korea and were going to extradite her to China for trial.. there'd be all hell to pay.

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#2141675 8-Dec-2018 16:31

And now the EU is at least thinking of jumping on the train.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-eu-china-huawei/europe-should-be-worried-about-huawei-eu-tech-commissioner-says-idUSKBN1O611X

I'm a geek, a gamer, a dad, a Quic user, and an IT Professional. I have a full rack home lab, size 15 feet, an epic beard and Asperger's. I'm a bit of a Cypherpunk, who believes information wants to be free and the Net interprets censorship as damage and routes around it. If you use my Quic signup you can also use the code R570394EKGIZ8 for free setup. Opinions are my own and not the views of my employer.

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#2141974 9-Dec-2018 12:08

How will this work in relation to telecommunications services that are purchased by the NZ government? Will there be a new requirement, that government services cannot be provided with Huawei equipment?

Which by my understanding is that, only Vodafone and Chorus would be able to provide government telecommunications services. (haven't seen any mention of them using Huawei equipment).

Glazza

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#2141975 9-Dec-2018 12:18

Both Chorus and Vodafone use Huawei.

hio77

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#2142053 9-Dec-2018 14:48

Glazza: Vodafone use Huawei.

Not Huawei RAN though last i checked...

I can't speak for further down their core.

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afe66

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#2142142 9-Dec-2018 17:00

I'm interested to see how loudly the Chinese _government_ is screaming about this.

Didnt they say that Huwawei has no links to the government so you should feel free to install their gear?

So why the outrage?

Cant see nz government getting this excited if head of fontura got arrested in Canada?

I think China have shot themselves in the foot badly if they are trying to convince the world that Huawei is a normal company...

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#2142143 9-Dec-2018 17:05

afe66: I'm interested to see how loudly the Chinese _government_ is screaming about this.

Didnt they say that Huwawei has no links to the government so you should feel free to install their gear?

So why the outrage?

Cant see nz government getting this excited if head of fontura got arrested in Canada?

I think China have shot themselves in the foot badly if they are trying to convince the world that Huawei is a normal company...

I dunno, but I can see the NZ govt getting pretty animated over something like you're suggesting, though they could be two different scenarios here, we don't know what the GCSB may know about Huawei

blakamin

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#2142144 9-Dec-2018 17:08

afe66:

Cant see nz government getting this excited if head of fontura got arrested in Canada?

Guessing you mean fonterra

And I think you'd find them to be VERY vocal about it.

afe66

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#2142157 9-Dec-2018 17:58

Really ??
NZ government screaming about terrible effects of nz Canada relationship because America has an arrest warrant. Demanding immediate release..

I think we would say Meh. Whatever..
Let's see what the courts decide.

blakamin

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#2142159 9-Dec-2018 18:04

afe66: Really ??
NZ government screaming about terrible effects of nz Canada relationship because America has an arrest warrant. Demanding immediate release..

I think we would say Meh. Whatever..
Let's see what the courts decide.

Of NZs biggest earner? You might say "meh", but if that happened, it'd probably bring the NZ economy to its knees, so yeah, the govt would be very vocal.

Do you realise what fonterra own? In other countries besides NZ? And how much they export?

Besides the fact they are the 4th largest dairy company in the world. Bigger than the US "Dairy Farmers of America".

Edit:... Here's a bit from Wikipedia showing how far the Govt might go...

In 2010, US embassy cables leaked by WikiLeaks suggested New Zealand had only sent troops to Iraq in 2003, following the initial invasion, so Fonterra would keep valuable Oil for Food contracts.[17][18]

Then google what happened with the chinese powdered milk thing and what your "Auntie Helen" did there.

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