Geekzone: technology news, blogs, forums
Guest
Welcome Guest.
You haven't logged in yet. If you don't have an account you can register now.


703 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 17


Topic # 11556 30-Jan-2007 16:24
Send private message

the shaping xtra does of  bittorent. Without changing isp's?
Im on Go Large, locked on a contract and torrent speeds max out at 20-30 kbps since being on this plan

View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic
 1 | 2
362 posts

Ultimate Geek

Trusted

  Reply # 59255 30-Jan-2007 16:51
Send private message

Nope, otherwise everyone would do it. You could try using encryption, but I doubt it will help very much,

460 posts

Ultimate Geek
Inactive user


  Reply # 59716 3-Feb-2007 23:14
Send private message

Bollocks.

Of course you can. Im not saying I've done it - but you can proxy/tunnel/vpn through to another connection, and then out to the internet. The traffic shaping is only looking at your connection, remember - and all your ISP will see is proxy/vpn/tunnel traffic, not BT or anything else.

Not that I endourse doing such a thing. But anyways - you can do anything you like with your own internet connection.

26469 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 6025

Moderator
Trusted
Biddle Corp
Lifetime subscriber

  Reply # 59722 4-Feb-2007 09:26
Send private message

weblordpepe: Bollocks.

Of course you can. Im not saying I've done it - but you can proxy/tunnel/vpn through to another connection, and then out to the internet. The traffic shaping is only looking at your connection, remember - and all your ISP will see is proxy/vpn/tunnel traffic, not BT or anything else.

Not that I endourse doing such a thing. But anyways - you can do anything you like with your own internet connection.


But many Go Large users don't seem to be suffering from the L7 filtering, they seem to be suffering from poor bandwidth overall in which case tunneling your traffic to get around the L7 filter can't make things any faster.


643 posts

Ultimate Geek


  Reply # 59731 4-Feb-2007 17:45

sbiddle: every Go Large connection I've seen suffers from the filtering, although they have slightly relaxed the throttling recently. I'd be interested if you can prove otherwise?

there are ISPs who don't filter but if you want to stay with Xtra and not have a throttled connection you'll need to sign up for a 'Pro' plan.

I'm on Pro Advanced, it costs a limb but with the right conditions I can get over 400kb/s on amule and torrents. Although I am connected to an overloaded conklin which means 4 megabits is shared between about 20 people in my area, and I get alot of packet loss. make sure you're connected to an exchange and can actually get decent overall speed before dishing out for a Pro connection.





Sniffing the glue holding the Internet together

26469 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 6025

Moderator
Trusted
Biddle Corp
Lifetime subscriber

  Reply # 59733 4-Feb-2007 18:46
Send private message

I should have phrased that a little better. I didn't mean that Go Large wasn't suffering from throttling from the L7 filter but that Go Large just seems to be exceptionally slow for a large number of users 24/7 no matter what services they're trying to use.


460 posts

Ultimate Geek
Inactive user


  Reply # 59734 4-Feb-2007 19:29
Send private message

Well yeah thats right. A simple test of downloading a big file over HTTP while your friend on another ISP downloads the same file will confirm that.

However the packet filtering itself is kinda an akward one. Because at the end of the day - we know the real reasons for packet filtering are nothing about conserving bandwidth. That much is obvius. A quick look at the list of the filtered applications /protocols reveals that.

3174 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 593

Trusted

  Reply # 60052 7-Feb-2007 20:56
Send private message

weblordpepe: Bollocks.

Of course you can. Im not saying I've done it - but you can proxy/tunnel/vpn through to another connection, and then out to the internet. The traffic shaping is only looking at your connection, remember - and all your ISP will see is proxy/vpn/tunnel traffic, not BT or anything else.

Not that I endourse doing such a thing. But anyways - you can do anything you like with your own internet connection.


I somehow doubt that VPN'ing or tunneling in any way would work because where would you find a relay server that has a decent speed? I mean even annonymous proxy servers have very very low speeds. This is the same sort of thing, just a different protocol.

I believe the solution would be to use Azureus as your client, change the port settings to something that are uncommon and on the connection > transport encryption settings tab, tick all boxes and set the encryption to RC4.

In theory, Azureus will encrypt the traffic if the other user sendng the data to you also has encryption enabled. There is more of a chance that the traffic will then be allowed through at high speed as it could be encrypted and the isp wont know its torrent traffic.
Azureus have more of the workings of this on their website.




Ray Taylor
Taylor Broadband (rural hawkes bay)
www.ruralkiwi.com

There is no place like localhost
For my general guide to extending your wireless network Click Here




460 posts

Ultimate Geek
Inactive user


  Reply # 60319 10-Feb-2007 10:12
Send private message

raytaylor:

I somehow doubt that VPN'ing or tunneling in any way would work because where would you find a relay server that has a decent speed? I mean even annonymous proxy servers have very very low speeds. This is the same sort of thing, just a different protocol.

I believe the solution would be to use Azureus as your client, change the port settings to something that are uncommon and on the connection > transport encryption settings tab, tick all boxes and set the encryption to RC4.


It doesn't seem to work. I tried encryption on many a Bittorrent clients, including Azureus. Didn't work. And also I know that the specific ports doesnt make a difference either.

And yes you can find decent speed relays. Although they generally catch on that you're sucking their bandwidth twice over. Once to download the torrent data and then again to send it to your connection.

Your very best chance at getting around the traffic filtering is to use encapsulation like a VPN or SSH/SSL tunnel. Anything to make the traffic a different protocol than is listed as naughty.

* One thing of note is that DCC on IRC doesnt seem to be affected for the most part. Probably the oldest protocol in the book for sharing music and warez.



3174 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 593

Trusted

  Reply # 60324 10-Feb-2007 11:20
Send private message

It probably doesnt work in most cases. The person or people who you are downloading from also have to have their encryption turned on. That way there is only a 'chance' that they do, and the traffic would be encrypted. Unfortunatly, the encryption isnt turned on by default to a use-if-available mode in most clients.




Ray Taylor
Taylor Broadband (rural hawkes bay)
www.ruralkiwi.com

There is no place like localhost
For my general guide to extending your wireless network Click Here




344 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 1

Trusted

  Reply # 60661 13-Feb-2007 12:40
Send private message

hi kids,

encrypting and changing ports won't help... shaping / throttling, packet tagging etc will pick up pretty much anything...

F5

3174 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 593

Trusted

  Reply # 60692 13-Feb-2007 17:10
Send private message

Click here for azureus specific settings
Or here

Most traffic shaping devices will not detect this, and the traffic shaping hardware would have to be able to perform deep packet inspection which I hear uses a huge amount of processing power. I doubt any but the big 5 isps have such a system in place.





Ray Taylor
Taylor Broadband (rural hawkes bay)
www.ruralkiwi.com

There is no place like localhost
For my general guide to extending your wireless network Click Here




643 posts

Ultimate Geek


  Reply # 60694 13-Feb-2007 17:28

mate, deep packet inspection is what every d-link, dynalink, netgear, cisco and other ADSL NAT device does - it's just a fancy marketing term.

Xtra use a system which will detect encrypted bittorrent easily, the tracker data is monitored and related connections tagged for throttling, it's even free Linux software.

It's why Go Large sucks!




Sniffing the glue holding the Internet together

344 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 1

Trusted

  Reply # 60697 13-Feb-2007 17:49
Send private message

correct... xtra does indeed have the ability to tag your packets, encryption or no! sorry but encrypting will not get around the FUP.

643 posts

Ultimate Geek


  Reply # 60704 13-Feb-2007 18:50

it's a shame they do this, I could live with a non-specific throttle on a flat-rate connection but the specific throttling of bittorrent is quite seriously deleterious upon legitimate uses of the Internet.




Sniffing the glue holding the Internet together

460 posts

Ultimate Geek
Inactive user


  Reply # 60705 13-Feb-2007 18:54
Send private message

Thats why we make an encapsulating protocol that looks just like its browsing the web. I wonders how difficult it would be to kick start a peer to peer network based on HTTP and HTML. Afterall, the content inside files transferred by HTTP can be anything.
Maybe something which uses a tracking system with the actual protocol, but the actual transferring of data is HTTP with seemly random tags etc so filtering cant affect it?

Perhaps a bit off topic, but its a good thought.


 1 | 2
View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic

Twitter »

Follow us to receive Twitter updates when new discussions are posted in our forums:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when news items and blogs are posted in our frontpage:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when tech item prices are listed in our price comparison site:





News »

N4L helping TAKA Trust bridge the digital divide for Lower Hutt students
Posted 18-Jun-2018 13:08


Winners Announced for 2018 CIO Awards
Posted 18-Jun-2018 13:03


Logitech Rally sets new standard for USB-connected video conference cameras
Posted 18-Jun-2018 09:27


Russell Stanners steps down as Vodafone NZ CEO
Posted 12-Jun-2018 09:13


Intergen recognised as 2018 Microsoft Country Partner of the Year for New Zealand
Posted 12-Jun-2018 08:00


Finalists Announced For Microsoft NZ Partner Awards
Posted 6-Jun-2018 15:12


Vocus Group and Vodafone announce joint venture to accelerate fibre innovation
Posted 5-Jun-2018 10:52


Kogan.com to launch Kogan Mobile in New Zealand
Posted 4-Jun-2018 14:34


Enable doubles fibre broadband speeds for its most popular wholesale service in Christchurch
Posted 2-Jun-2018 20:07


All or Nothing: New Zealand All Blacks arrives on Amazon Prime Video
Posted 2-Jun-2018 16:21


Innovation Grant, High Tech Awards and new USA office for Kiwi tech company SwipedOn
Posted 1-Jun-2018 20:54


Commerce Commission warns Apple for misleading consumers about their rights
Posted 30-May-2018 13:15


IBM leads Call for Code to use cloud, data, AI, blockchain for natural disaster relief
Posted 25-May-2018 14:12


New FUJIFILM X-T100 aims to do better job than smartphones
Posted 24-May-2018 20:17


Stuff takes 100% ownership of Stuff Fibre
Posted 24-May-2018 19:41



Geekzone Live »

Try automatic live updates from Geekzone directly in your browser, without refreshing the page, with Geekzone Live now.



Are you subscribed to our RSS feed? You can download the latest headlines and summaries from our stories directly to your computer or smartphone by using a feed reader.

Alternatively, you can receive a daily email with Geekzone updates.