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309 posts

Ultimate Geek
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Topic # 214594 19-May-2017 14:07
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Has there been some kind of routing changed to NA?

 

 

 

While gaming on World of Warships I've noticed a ping increase. Initially, I thought it would just sort itself out. But after 1 or 2 weeks the higher latency has remained.

 

In the past 2 or 3 years it has always been around 106ms (212ms round trip) one way trip to the server (Wargaming only displays one way and not to the server and back). But lately it has been 179ms one way (for a round trip of 358ms).

 

I subscribe to a VPN service and connected with it to LA. Sure enough the pings displayed were 106ms one way or the usual round trip of 212ms I use to get not using a VPN. When looking at round trip ping -- new 358ms vs the old 212ms = a 59% ping increase.

 

 

 

It is disappointing to see and unfortunately if it persists.... it could drive me to start looking at other options.


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  Reply # 1784745 19-May-2017 14:14
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Please take a look at this thread as it outlines also how internet routing works: https://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=39&topicid=214420

 

This is normal with any ISP, routes can change at any given point based around problems etc. The ISP has zero control over these routes once it leaves their network.





Michael Murphy | https://murfy.nz
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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1784747 19-May-2017 14:17
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Anyone know what ISP has the best ping to North America?


 
 
 
 


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  Reply # 1784751 19-May-2017 14:21
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There is no answer to your question. They're essentially all the same.

 

You need to provide more information - what kind of internet connection do you have (ADSL, VDSL, UFB) as if you're on ADSL or VDSL this could be related to the DLM changes that have taken affect and if this is the case there is no fix for your issue.

 

I wouldn't imagine that a ping difference of a few ms would make much of a difference to a game like WoT.





Michael Murphy | https://murfy.nz
Want to be with an epic ISP? Want $20 to join them too? Well, use this link to sign up to BigPipe!
The Router Guide | Electric KiwiCommunity UniFi Cloud Controller | Ubiquiti Edgerouter Tutorial


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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1784752 19-May-2017 14:23
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Routes are not static on any ISP and do change along with the latency, Unless you have an SLA in place with the ISP it's best effort

 

Linux


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Master Geek
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  Reply # 1784753 19-May-2017 14:31
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I just did a route check to a server in San Francisco. The slow point was through Sydney. Tomorrow it could be Tokyo or Hong Kong or any where else in between. ISP has no control over this.




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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1784758 19-May-2017 14:37
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ADSL2+

 

I specifically watched for any changes in game pings with the DLM stuff happening. I noticed the increased in DL and up speeds. Yet the pings in the game stayed the same as they had always been to NA (although not ideal pings..still). Until a week ...maybe 10 days ago and are now worse suddenly.

 

If the DLM is the cause of the higher latency....why does my VPN do what Spark can't to fix it?

 

 

 

The ping matters enough to me in any game and I would guess to pretty much any gamer. Lower is better...higher is bad!

 

You never know what you can change till you start asking around...maybe this change has happened cause someone somewhere figured it didn't matter to anyone. Till someone starts asking why did route this here?

 

 

 

I will try adding tracert with vpn and without for comparison....

 

 


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  Reply # 1784761 19-May-2017 14:45
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Here are my TrueNet latency figures (daily averages) for my VF "FibreX" (cable) connection to Dallas:

 

Click to see full size

 

(click image to view)

 

I check speeds and latency to Los Angeles and Dallas twice daily, and have not noticed any recent increase in latency - but I'm not on Spark.





Sideface




309 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1784771 19-May-2017 14:52
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Well here is my tracrt from NZ.

 

tracert 162.213.61.115

 

Tracing route to sv4-sl-b115.fe.core.pw [162.213.61.115]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

 

1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 192.168.1.1
2 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 192.168.3.1
3 8 ms 11 ms 19 ms xxx-xxx-xxx-x.jetstream.xtra.co.nz [xxx.xxx.xxx.x]

 

4 * * * Request timed out.
5 12 ms 12 ms 12 ms ae8-10.akbr6.global-gateway.net.nz [122.56.116.5
]
6 12 ms 12 ms 12 ms ae7-2.akbr7.global-gateway.net.nz [122.56.119.53
]
7 35 ms 36 ms 35 ms xe0-0-4.sgbr3.global-gateway.net.nz [122.56.127.
94]
8 35 ms 35 ms 35 ms ae2-10.sgbr4.global-gateway.net.nz [202.50.232.2
46]
9 35 ms 35 ms 34 ms ae-3.a04.sydnau03.au.ra.gin.ntt.net [103.13.80.1
25]
10 35 ms 47 ms 34 ms ae-4.r21.sydnau03.au.bb.gin.ntt.net [202.68.64.1
24]
11 * 148 ms 150 ms ae-11.r31.tokyjp05.jp.bb.gin.ntt.net [129.250.5.
34]
12 148 ms 148 ms 147 ms ae-2.r30.tokyjp05.jp.bb.gin.ntt.net [129.250.5.2
3]
13 191 ms 191 ms 192 ms ae-4.r24.tkokhk01.hk.bb.gin.ntt.net [129.250.2.5
1]
14 190 ms 191 ms 190 ms ae-1.r00.tkokhk01.hk.bb.gin.ntt.net [129.250.2.1
25]
15 191 ms 192 ms 192 ms ae-0.a00.tkokhk01.hk.bb.gin.ntt.net [129.250.2.1
28]
16 246 ms 247 ms 245 ms ix-ae-24-0.tcore1.HK2-Hong-Kong.as6453.net [180.
87.112.153]
17 241 ms 238 ms 238 ms if-et-17-2.hcore1.KV8-Chiba.as6453.net [116.0.67
.62]
18 266 ms 265 ms 265 ms if-ae-24-2.tcore2.PDI-Palo-Alto.as6453.net [66.1
98.144.56]
19 266 ms 267 ms 266 ms if-ae-5-2.tcore2.SQN-San-Jose.as6453.net [64.86.
21.1]
20 273 ms 273 ms 273 ms if-ae-1-2.tcore1.SQN-San-Jose.as6453.net [63.243
.205.1]
21 238 ms 239 ms 239 ms 216.6.33.122
22 266 ms 266 ms 266 ms 92.223.120.164
23 239 ms 239 ms 239 ms sv4-sl-b115.fe.core.pw [162.213.61.115]

 

Trace complete.

 

 

 

I actually can remember one time before (yrs ago) gaming pings to NA went up due to some "routing changes". Told there was "nothing that could be done about it" and eventually someone did something about it.

 

I've been happy with Spark for years....even if another ISP has offered me better pricing and great deals. I've stuck with Spark cause you've been excellent...no outages...stable pings to NA....websites respond well and great overall in providing internet to my house.
Unfortunately....pings to NA are very important and a potential deal breaker. Trust me...I do not want to change isp's...


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  Reply # 1784775 19-May-2017 14:58
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@Azzura Depending on where your VPN endpoint is this will likely have a different route however can always run into the same issue too. This is how the internet works and routes are automatic.

 

"Higher" is generally not any worse, it is dependent on the game you play. The change in latency here is far far less than your human reflexes so you honestly won't know any difference and any different you do indeed see is a pure placebo unless if you've been experiencing packet loss also.

 

Really your only option here is just wait it out. The route will attempt to go to the shortest path given there is capacity on that particular route to begin with. You have not really provided too much information for us to look into it so when you can, provide traceroutes, router stats and anything else that may be of use.





Michael Murphy | https://murfy.nz
Want to be with an epic ISP? Want $20 to join them too? Well, use this link to sign up to BigPipe!
The Router Guide | Electric KiwiCommunity UniFi Cloud Controller | Ubiquiti Edgerouter Tutorial


792 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1784778 19-May-2017 15:10
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I have a more direct route. But it can change. It depends on where the network operators want to send traffic:

 

AKL -> SYD -> San Jose 

 

Host                                                                                                                                                                                                                               Loss%   Snt   Last   Avg  Best  Wrst StDev

 

1. 10.0.2.2                                                                                                                                                                                                                         0.0%    24    0.2   0.3   0.0   1.1   0.0

 

2. 192.168.89.1                                                                                                                                                                                                                     0.0%    24    0.6   0.7   0.5   0.8   0.0

 

3. ae0-130.mdr-cr1.as45177.net.nz                                                                                                                                                                                                   0.0%    24    0.6   2.6   0.6  15.2   4.0

 

4. equinix-sv1.as45177.net                                                                                                                                                                                                          0.0%    24  133.6 137.7 133.6 161.2   8.1

 

5. eqix-sj-sv5.gcore.lu                                                                                                                                                                                                             0.0%    24  146.6 137.4 135.4 150.4   3.5

 

6. sv5-a9006-edge-1-be20-2000.fe.core.pw                                                                                                                                                                                            0.0%    24  134.8 135.5 134.8 136.4   0.0

 

7. 92.223.120.164                                                                                                                                                                                                                   0.0%    24  135.9 138.9 135.7 167.3   7.6

 

8. sv4-sl-b115.fe.core.pw                                                                                                                                                                                                           0.0%    24  135.6 135.8 135.1 136.5   0.0

 

Spark is usually pretty good. If you change ISP you will probably have problems with other routes. That particular path your traceroute took, seemed to go sydney, japan, hong kong and then USA. The easiest way to explain this will be down to how the networks are intertwined. Who peers with who, and where routers have been told to send traffic. 

 

Also, it depends on the games you play, some games ping is not much of a factor at all. In some games having a high latency can actually be a positive. So the whole mis-conception about lower the better is sometimes flawed.

 

 








309 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1784794 19-May-2017 15:41
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Ping in this game isn't too important as it isn't a twitch game. But it is noticeable in-game (and something didn't feel right while playing) or I wouldn't have bothered posting to ask.

 

 

 

It is a decision I don't want to make. I am able to live with the old latency....but this new one will push me to look around. And I am already doing research into other providers (one at 173ms vs Sparks old 194ms to Dallas) and making calls. However, I will give it some time in the hope it does get resolved.

 

 

 

I know about ping/latency in gaming.I've Been gaming online since 1995.

 

 

 

Thank you! For taking the time to respond ...it is appreciated. And I do understand it could be out of your control.


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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1784795 19-May-2017 15:44
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Sorry but it's more a mind thing than a slight change in latency

 

Linux




309 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1784801 19-May-2017 15:54
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Linux:

 

Sorry but it's more a mind thing than a slight change in latency

 

Linux

 

 

 

 

What study did you read that in?


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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1784807 19-May-2017 16:05
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I was with Spark several years ago when VDSL became available here but before UFB was.  Previously I was with a smaller ISP for ADSL and when pings to specific overseas game servers (in my case WoT Asia) increased, I'd talk to the guy I knew there and he'd talk to their upstream provider and (when it wasn't related to a routing around a cable break) the lower pings would return quite quickly.  IDK if they put special routes in place for that IP or what, but it was always corrected. 

 

Then I moved to Spark who with a lot more customers require a lot more bandwidth, and found their focus is on providing capacity at low cost rather than the lowest possible latency.  When UFB became available I moved to another smaller ISP (where I also know someone) and once again have never had a problem getting increased pings looked into and corrected.

 

The OP traceroute above  is going to sydney-japan-us, definately not the lowest latency way but quite possibly the cheapest for Spark.  You will likely struggle to get someone there to look at this as a 'problem'.





Speedtest



309 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1784810 19-May-2017 16:07
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Amosnz:

 

I was with Spark several years ago when VDSL became available here but before UFB was.  Previously I was with a smaller ISP for ADSL and when pings to specific overseas game servers (in my case WoT Asia) increased, I'd talk to the guy I knew there and he'd talk to their upstream provider and (when it wasn't related to a routing around a cable break) the lower pings would return quite quickly.  IDK if they put special routes in place for that IP or what, but it was always corrected. 

 

Then I moved to Spark who with a lot more customers require a lot more bandwidth, and found their focus is on providing capacity at low cost rather than the lowest possible latency.  When UFB became available I moved to another smaller ISP (where I also know someone) and once again have never had a problem getting increased pings looked into and corrected.

 

The OP traceroute above  is going to sydney-japan-us, definately not the lowest latency way but quite possibly the cheapest for Spark.  You will likely struggle to get someone there to look at this as a 'problem'.

 

 

 

 

Would you be able to show my your tracert to 162.213.61.115 pls?

 

It would be interesting to see if or how they differ.

 

Heck, I may just get a second line from a different ISP connected to the house to see how they differ...just for the fun of it. And over time just drop the one with the highest ping.


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