Ghost fibre connection / address error

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#3068380 27-Apr-2023 13:05

Wheelbarrow01:

So a bit of an update on this situation. The OP provided me the address and I did a bit of investigation - this is what I found....

...

I hope this information helps.

If your manager doesn't give you a gold star for your work here they need to be hung drawn & quartered :)

This is a wonderful example of Customer Service... and certainly helps to dispel the myths that corporates are full of drones simply reciting "The computer says no"

Its so typical of the helpfulness of the community we have here at GZ.. its very special and long may it continue...

xpd

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#3068381 27-Apr-2023 13:07

ANglEAUT:

Wheelbarrow01: ... It is an unfortunate situation but we see this issue arise from time to time. Unfortunately because fibre installation is "free", there is often no value placed on our network by homeowners. This means they tend to rip it out with no thought as to what it costs to reinstate. The government only subsidises the first installation. Any reinstatement is charged at the full cost of the work as no subsidy applies.

Now that most first installs are done, we can hope that homeowners, tradies & builders will learn quickly what the cost of the ONT connection is.

But they won't learn unless it happens to them personally. I think a campaign to remind people not to touch them without talking to ISP/Chorus first wouldn't be a bad idea.

XPD / Gavin

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capresesalad

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#3068706 28-Apr-2023 09:45

Great investigating there from Wheelbarrow and Maxine, and yes like someone mentioned above amazing customer service. I just wish it was accessible via the normal channels that I went through before finding GZ - I imagine many other frustrated customers in the same situation who aren't tech savvy and are struggling to get anywhere through the contact centre merrygoround.

The previous owner intentionally damaged Chorus property and then lied about it so I think there should be a cost to them that goes toward the reinstallation.

capresesalad

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#3068708 28-Apr-2023 09:48

The owner did the reno himself btw.

capresesalad

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#3068796 28-Apr-2023 12:47

Could you point me to the statutory provision that's your legal basis for charging me as well, please?

xpd

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#3068799 28-Apr-2023 13:07

He does have a point..... there's nothing in the T&C for Chorus installed fiber for this case. It was taken before he moved in, so he can't be held responsible for it.

They can dispute the charges on the basis that they didn't remove/damage the network themselves and therefore they are not liable;

Shouldn't be any dispute.

Chorus should do the work as needed, then chase the original owner who is obviously the one who removed the ONT. Pretty sure they can track them down......

XPD / Gavin

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#3068800 28-Apr-2023 13:11

These sort of cases are probably the ground work for how they can/should be addressed in the future.

Will be many more to come i suspect.

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Jase2985

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#3068846 28-Apr-2023 13:37

xpd:

He does have a point..... there's nothing in the T&C for Chorus installed fiber for this case. It was taken before he moved in, so he can't be held responsible for it.

They can dispute the charges on the basis that they didn't remove/damage the network themselves and therefore they are not liable;
Shouldn't be any dispute.

Chorus should do the work as needed, then chase the original owner who is obviously the one who removed the ONT. Pretty sure they can track them down......

the dispute is who damaged it, not that its damaged.

Chorus have no idea who/when it was damaged so it falls with the current owner to declear it wasn't them.

you go straight to the previous owner, they will say it wasnt them then what? by going through the current owner its then up to the previous owner to prove it wasn't them and for chours to pursue them for the cost.

capresesalad

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#3068847 28-Apr-2023 13:45

Jase2985:

xpd:

He does have a point..... there's nothing in the T&C for Chorus installed fiber for this case. It was taken before he moved in, so he can't be held responsible for it.

They can dispute the charges on the basis that they didn't remove/damage the network themselves and therefore they are not liable;
Shouldn't be any dispute.

Chorus should do the work as needed, then chase the original owner who is obviously the one who removed the ONT. Pretty sure they can track them down......

the dispute is who damaged it, not that its damaged.

Chorus have no idea who/when it was damaged so it falls with the current owner to declear it wasn't them.

you go straight to the previous owner, they will say it wasnt them then what? by going through the current owner its then up to the previous owner to prove it wasn't them and for chours to pursue them for the cost.

Wheelbarrow's post said that they could tell when it was damaged because of when the 'dying gasp' signal was sent, and can see when I purchased the house, and we have evidence of the reno's done ("freshly painted interior!" in the RE listing plus confirmation from the tenant).

Now that they have said it was in the lounge I can actually see there is a bit of the wallpaper that has been plastered over, and if you look at the real estate photos during the open homes they had strategically placed a dining chair in front of it.

wratterus

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#3068849 28-Apr-2023 13:51

It's not Chorus's responsibility to pay for something that someone else damaged.

That would be like Gary rear ending you (in your car of course) 🙃 and you demanding the panel beater covers the cost of the damage despite them having nothing to do with it.

Best thing is to do as as been suggested, then dispute the charge and try & get it passed on to the previous owner, as you have very good information that they knowingly and willingly damaged it.

Bit late now, but in an ideal world this would have been one of those things that was inspected before purchase & was put as a condition to get the previous owner to resolve. It is something that people will become more aware of over time. I'd be interested to know the un-subsided cost of this type of repair.

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#3068851 28-Apr-2023 14:07

Chorus could tell when power to the ONT was switched off. That isn't necessarily when damage occurred.

Can you see any evidence of the external box terminating the fibre. I can partly understand why somebody would not want the ONT in a prominent spot chosen by a previous tenant. How far would they go removing the external parts of the install?

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#3068912 28-Apr-2023 15:06

capresesalad:

the dispute is who damaged it, not that its damaged.

Chorus have no idea who/when it was damaged so it falls with the current owner to declear it wasn't them.

you go straight to the previous owner, they will say it wasnt them then what? by going through the current owner its then up to the previous owner to prove it wasn't them and for chours to pursue them for the cost.

Wheelbarrow's post said that they could tell when it was damaged because of when the 'dying gasp' signal was sent, and can see when I purchased the house, and we have evidence of the reno's done ("freshly painted interior!" in the RE listing plus confirmation from the tenant).

Now that they have said it was in the lounge I can actually see there is a bit of the wallpaper that has been plastered over, and if you look at the real estate photos during the open homes they had strategically placed a dining chair in front of it.

correct so then you need to follow the process to say it wasnt you and pass the blame to the previous owner. nothing hard in that.

"They can dispute the charges on the basis that they didn't remove/damage the network themselves and therefore they are not liable;" you have the evidence.

capresesalad

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#3068914 28-Apr-2023 15:10

capresesalad:

Could you point me to the statutory provision that's your legal basis for charging me as well, please?

bump

hsvhel

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#3068917 28-Apr-2023 15:13

I dont expect there will be one for your specific case, other than you are having a service re-installed that was already covered on the govt subsidy

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everettpsycho

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#3068957 28-Apr-2023 17:01

Wheelbarrow01:
Sometimes letterbox numbers are just plain incorrect. For example, legal addresses might be 1/23 and 2/23 Example Rd but letterboxes could show 23 and 23A, or 23 and 2/23, or 1/23 and 23B - the various combinations of incorrect letterbox numbering I have seen over the years could fill a book. Rental agencies often use whatever is on the letterbox when advertising, which ends up on tenancy agreements and tenants then have blind faith that this is their legal address. Then they have dramas connecting power and other services.

And here's the kicker - I used to think that Core Logic were sticklers for the rules - ie that their database would always show correct legal addresses cleanly. However this is not the case. Because they provide their data to emergency services, they generally use whatever is on the letterbox - even if it is wrong. This is so Fire/Police/Ambulance can always find the right house in an emergency by looking for letterbox numbers.

FYI Chorus pays no attention to what Google Maps says - we don't use it, refer to it, or rely on it for our address data. We use Core Logic data - with reference to LINZ and council GIS mapping to help verify things. We also maintain our own internal mapping system which accurately plots the location of our entire network (both copper and fibre) in detail.

It's worth mentioning that Core Logic can get it wrong sometimes, but we have a process to alert Core Logic so errors can be corrected. Where errors are corrected by Core Logic, that updated data usually flows through into Chorus systems overnight.

As someone who used to deal with this addressing for fibre can be a total mess. Core logic have got themselves in to a very prominent position with some providers relying on their unique address identifiers so without their approval there is no unique fibre service locator. The numbered vs lettered addresses causes one set of headaches, corner lots in subdivisions were an educated guess as to what road they would end up as and the worst scenario was multi tenanted business units where they have no obvious identifiers. The whole thing was compounded by businesses ordering under managers names not their business name so when there's a reconnection it require full investigationa from all the previous installs to figure out who was who as to get online people would willingly out down anything.

Once had a business state they were an address despite each level of the building being uniquely numbered, the owner couldn't work out that he should be level 1 and took the wrong address which screwed up the real teba ts there. Also one cmhad a developer decide the councila sanctioned numbering was optional and did their own thing, half the tenant were then connected wrong and linz had to get involved to order then to fix their non compliance. Final bad example was receiving a photo of someone's property labelled "I think this is mine", how on earth did they not know?

We also used to routinely see A connected as B or 1 connected when it should have been A.

I don't do that work anymore but to this day can not fathom how people don't know their address or what mailbox is theirs, or in some instancea what floor of a building they are on or their street. Unfortunately like in this instance the battle was getting through the front line who didn't understand what was actually going on to reach the right person like wbarrow who could investigate and actually come up with the answers and a practical solution to the problem.

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