Ghost fibre connection / address error

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capresesalad

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#304245 17-Apr-2023 17:43

Hi there!

I bought a house that doesn't appear to have had any fibre internet. But when you search the home address on One NZ / Chorus etc website it comes back showing as already having fibre installed.

I have tried to let One NZ know that, and they have sent two trouble shooting guys from Chorus over to help me, arriving to find no evidence of fibre ever being installed, and then leaving because they aren't installation technicians. They both told me to call One NZ and request a new fibre connection install. I have done this several times but One NZ contact centre were not lodging jobs to connect the fibre - possibly because it already shows in the system as already having fibre and perhaps didn't understand my issue.

I contacted Chorus directly to explain and ask if there was a job lodged for an installation and they said no and that because it shows as already having fibre installed, and that there is only 'one free install per legal title' funded by the government, I will have to pay charges to install it a "second" time.

Chorus said that this happens sometimes with subdivisions, but this house was built in the 1970s as a duplex so it hasn't suddenly been subdivided or had titled changed as far as I know.

How can I prove that this house has never had fibre? The previous owner said that they didn't have it. I have not been able to get anywhere with the One NZ contact centre about this - first contact was 5 months ago.

If anyone has advice let me know! I work from home and mobile data is not cutting it! I can't afford to pay for a "second" install, and don't think I should if someone has made a mistake.

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#3064549 17-Apr-2023 17:50

Can you PM me the address? (I'll poke at the chorus tool for RSPs) does the other part of the duplex have fibre?

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MaxineN

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#3064554 17-Apr-2023 18:31

I would very much would love to know your account details and also how this is happening.

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altered-ego
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#3064628 17-Apr-2023 22:07

Considering this is a duplex, I'm guessing you already tried 1/[you address here] or 2/[you address here] instead of only [you address here] when ordering the connection?

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#3064631 17-Apr-2023 22:19

When you look at the council map of your property, do you see a "Lot 1 DP xxx / Lot 2 DP xxx" the duplexes at your property? Or do you only see "Lot 1 DP xxx"?

It is my understanding that the "Lot 1 DP xxx" is the legal title of the property. This could also explain why the previous owner never had fiber installed.

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quickymart

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#3064633 17-Apr-2023 22:22

So there's no equipment in the property at all? No Chorus plate or anything?
I suspect it has been installed previously if it's showing up in their system that it's there. Did the previous owner do renovations and maybe removed the ONT from the wall by mistake? (I've seen that happen a few times).

nztim

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#3064847 18-Apr-2023 11:50

If the duplex is one legal entity, then taxpayer money will only provide one free fibre install to that land parcel.

@wheelbarrow01 will be explain this more

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Wheelbarrow01

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#3065845 19-Apr-2023 23:17

nztim:

If the duplex is one legal entity, then taxpayer money will only provide one free fibre install to that land parcel.

@wheelbarrow01 will be explain this more

Yes, a perfect example of this is my friend who owns an early 1900's house in Wellington that at some stage in the past 100 years was converted into two flats but remained an undivided single title.

His street facing tenant got fibre connected no problem. But when his rear tenant tried to get connected, they couldn't because the single government subsidy for this property had already been used. At no time in the past had these flats had their own unique postal address, so when Chorus was designing the fibre network, we had no idea there were two separate dwellings onsite.

It's possible that had the flats been given their own letterboxes and postal addresses years ago, it could have been picked up and incorporated into the fibre roll out, but in this case it was missed, and my friend had to pay for a second fibre drop-off point for his rental property. Chorus then built the extra drop-off at the street, and the second tenant ultimately got connected.

Without seeing more information and investigating a bit further, there are too many variables to say what the issue could be in the OP's case. It could be as simple as the duplex never having had separate letterboxes, but would be interesting to know the ownership structure. Assuming the two units are separately owned then it can't be a single title and would most likely be under a cross lease.

I'm happy to look into it further if the OP sends me the details in a private message.

The views expressed by me are not necessarily those of my employer Chorus NZ Ltd

MaxineN

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#3065854 20-Apr-2023 05:42

On the RSP side of things we do have two separate addresses. 1 with an ONT the other without (OPs). We actually know where OP is physically so I'll be submitting an order through this morning the moment I'm in the office

I do wonder 🤔 if OP was given the wrong documents(I am 99% sure of this)

I'd be happy to share my findings with Simon if OP says yes.

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capresesalad

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#3065855 20-Apr-2023 06:17

I don't believe I have the wrong documents, it seems likely someone has installed the fibre of another house against our unit address by mistake - BUT Google maps does show our unit numbers the wrong way around (opposite to what they say on the letterbox - and how they would have been 'mistakenly' installed by Chorus) - and the LIM has the unit numbers one in front and one behind when they are actually side by side so I can't tell from that - so there is definitely a mistake with out units registered somewhere along the line. Let me know if you find anything that suggests I have the wrong address for my house.

ANglEAUT

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#3066551 21-Apr-2023 14:27

capresesalad:... anything that suggests I have the wrong address for my house.

That'll be the cheapest house move ever. 😆

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Wheelbarrow01

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#3066805 21-Apr-2023 23:46

capresesalad:

I don't believe I have the wrong documents, it seems likely someone has installed the fibre of another house against our unit address by mistake - BUT Google maps does show our unit numbers the wrong way around (opposite to what they say on the letterbox - and how they would have been 'mistakenly' installed by Chorus) - and the LIM has the unit numbers one in front and one behind when they are actually side by side so I can't tell from that - so there is definitely a mistake with out units registered somewhere along the line. Let me know if you find anything that suggests I have the wrong address for my house.

There are a number of ways to check and validate addresses. Many councils have good GIS maps that can help - just google "(your city/town) GIS map" and the right one should come up first in the results. These usually provide accurate numbering and Lot & DP information, although sometimes they don't accurately show which cross lease address is which.

You can also use https://www.ea.govt.nz/your-power/your-meter/address/ to type in your power meter's ICP number and see what address the Electricity Authority has for you. Not always 100% accurate but it can help clarify things.

Sometimes letterbox numbers are just plain incorrect. For example, legal addresses might be 1/23 and 2/23 Example Rd but letterboxes could show 23 and 23A, or 23 and 2/23, or 1/23 and 23B - the various combinations of incorrect letterbox numbering I have seen over the years could fill a book. Rental agencies often use whatever is on the letterbox when advertising, which ends up on tenancy agreements and tenants then have blind faith that this is their legal address. Then they have dramas connecting power and other services.

And here's the kicker - I used to think that Core Logic were sticklers for the rules - ie that their database would always show correct legal addresses cleanly. However this is not the case. Because they provide their data to emergency services, they generally use whatever is on the letterbox - even if it is wrong. This is so Fire/Police/Ambulance can always find the right house in an emergency by looking for letterbox numbers.

FYI Chorus pays no attention to what Google Maps says - we don't use it, refer to it, or rely on it for our address data. We use Core Logic data - with reference to LINZ and council GIS mapping to help verify things. We also maintain our own internal mapping system which accurately plots the location of our entire network (both copper and fibre) in detail.

It's worth mentioning that Core Logic can get it wrong sometimes, but we have a process to alert Core Logic so errors can be corrected. Where errors are corrected by Core Logic, that updated data usually flows through into Chorus systems overnight.

The views expressed by me are not necessarily those of my employer Chorus NZ Ltd

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capresesalad

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#3066879 22-Apr-2023 11:16

The council maps show the units one in front of another, not side by side, so can't tell from those. The ICP search has my correct address, so it still seems like the error was made by Chorus/ISP when installing my neighbour's fibre.

Thanks for the info.

Wheelbarrow01

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#3067140 23-Apr-2023 00:51

capresesalad:

The council maps show the units one in front of another, not side by side, so can't tell from those. The ICP search has my correct address, so it still seems like the error was made by Chorus/ISP when installing my neighbour's fibre.

Thanks for the info.

If you want to flick me a PM with your address and a screenshot of a map pinpointing your house, I can compare it to our network map on Monday and confirm what's gone wrong.

The views expressed by me are not necessarily those of my employer Chorus NZ Ltd

Wheelbarrow01

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#3068356 27-Apr-2023 11:49

So a bit of an update on this situation. The OP provided me the address and I did a bit of investigation - this is what I found....

After being given the address, the first thing I did was look at our network records and compared them to the council records. They matched perfectly, and they show that we did install an ONT at this dwelling in 2018.

Next, I found the contact details of the customer who previously lived at the address and had fibre service through us from 2018 though to February 2022. I emailed that customer with a series of questions to try and confirm both the address and physical location where they had lived. They replied confirming that they had previously rented the OP's dwelling and they definitely had fibre installed, with the ONT located in the lounge area. He went on to advise that after he moved out, the landlord commenced an extensive renovation and he is aware that they then intended to sell.

I then googled the address, and in doing so I found a relatively recent real estate advertisement for the property with photos and a description which backed up the previous tenant's claim that the property underwent a potentially major renovation prior to being sold in September 2022. There is no evidence of any fibre network inside the dwelling in any of the photos taken post renovation.

The conclusion I have drawn is that the address is correct in all systems, we did install fibre in 2018, and it was likely tampered with in mid 2022 - when it was either fully or partially removed by the previous owners and/or their contractors performing the renovation, and I found a "dying gasp" alarm for the ONT in mid 2022 - this means the ONT went offline and never came back. The previous owners never contacted Chorus to advise it had been removed, or to arrange to have it reinstated. They then sold the property without any corrective action being taken.

The situation now is that the network needs to be reinstated before the OP can have service. I have already spoken to @MaxineN and advised what needs to happen. Essentially the RSP needs to place a fibre activation request with a truckroll for "missing ONT". A technician will then visit the property to ascertain the work required to reinstall the fibre.

There will be a cost for this work, and it will be invoiced from Chorus directly to the customer. I cannot say in advance of the site visit what it might cost for the damaged/removed Chorus network onsite to be fixed/replaced as there are too many variables. It depends on whether it was just the ONT removed, or whether cabling has also been removed or concealed behind new wall linings etc. It also depends whether it is fixed fibre or air blown from the exchange/cabinet.

Once the work is complete and the service reinstated, the OP will receive an invoice from Chorus for the work. They then have a number of options:

They can pay the invoice;
They can dispute the charges on the basis that they didn't remove/damage the network themselves and therefore they are not liable;
They can attempt to pass the invoice on to the previous owners via their lawyers, and get them to pay it.

The most favourable outcome for the OP may be to dispute the charges and then give Chorus the name and contact details for the previous owner (as noted on the sale & purchase agreement). Chorus can then look to pass the charges on to the previous owner directly.

I hope this information helps. It is an unfortunate situation but we see this issue arise from time to time. Unfortunately because fibre installation is "free", there is often no value placed on our network by homeowners. This means they tend to rip it out with no thought as to what it costs to reinstate. The government only subsidises the first installation. Any reinstatement is charged at the full cost of the work as no subsidy applies.

The views expressed by me are not necessarily those of my employer Chorus NZ Ltd

ANglEAUT

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#3068374 27-Apr-2023 12:51

Wheelbarrow01: ... It is an unfortunate situation but we see this issue arise from time to time. Unfortunately because fibre installation is "free", there is often no value placed on our network by homeowners. This means they tend to rip it out with no thought as to what it costs to reinstate. The government only subsidises the first installation. Any reinstatement is charged at the full cost of the work as no subsidy applies.

Now that most first installs are done, we can hope that homeowners, tradies & builders will learn quickly what the cost of the ONT connection is.

Please keep this GZ community vibrant by contributing in a constructive & respectful manner.

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