One NZ (Vodafone) 3G phase out

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#2966305 12-Sep-2022 18:52

I did one as well for a location that gets really poor 3G/4G coverage and selected "no coverage".

What happens to all these pins anyway? Do they make it to someone at Vodafone who would read them and do something about them, or do they just get "filed" and not responded to?

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#2966308 12-Sep-2022 18:58

I've filed plenty of poor reception complaints and for areas of low urgency (i.e., residential and low population) they just get added to a pool.

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#2966311 12-Sep-2022 19:00

MadEngineer:
Is it just me or is it when you fall back to 3G the data connection can be next to useless if not completely dead? I've not experienced this first hand but have had plenty of such complaints.

Most of the 3G spectrum is now allocated to 4G so yes 3G ps will be slower

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#2966389 12-Sep-2022 21:08

quickymart:

What happens to all these pins anyway? Do they make it to someone at Vodafone who would read them and do something about them, or do they just get "filed" and not responded to?

I'm not privy to the processes but I'd be willing to bet that they use the geographic information to identify 'hot spots' of failures. They'll then probably examine some network health statistics for the serving cells in that area. Finally they'll overlay it with future builds/feasibility assessments.

Most of aggregations would be done via analytics... so feedback won't be individually reviewed by humans.

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#2966392 12-Sep-2022 21:22

tripper1000:

2dm kind of already has. 2dm have re-framed a large chunk of 900MHz to LTE in my area (West Auckland), so they have already (mostly) done what V.fone say their goal is. (maybe V.fone has but it has gotten lost in translation through the PR poeple?)

A large chunk? They have rights to ~10 MHz in 900 MHz band. Previously ~5 MHz for GSM/2G and ~5MHz for UMTS/3G. They just swapped out the GSM for LTE resulting in the current situation of ~5 MHz LTE alongside the existing ~5 MHz for UMTS. So not a large chunk, just half. Getting rid of UMTS would mean an extra 5 MHz in 900 MHz (to 10 MHz total) and an extra 5 MHz in 2100 MHz (to 15 MHz total). Not just West Auckland too, 2degrees has deployed L900 at many sites across the country in my observation -- the ones that do not usually have L700 instead.

2degrees really do need more spectrum for LTE. They currently only operate at best 10+5+20+10 = 45 MHz (in 700 + 900 + 1800 + 2100 bands) of spectrum for LTE (alongside 5+5 = 10 MHz currently used for UMTS). Compare to Vodafone who currently operate at best 15+20+5+15+15 = 70 MHz (in 700 + 1800 + 1800 + 2100 + 2600 bands) for LTE (alongside 10+5 = 15 MHz currently used for UMTS in most areas with some already having 5 MHz re-farmed from UMTS to LTE e.g. Wellington).

Spark is even further along up to 20+20+15+20+20+20+20 = 135 MHz (in 700 + 1800 + 2100 + 2300 + 2300 + 2300 + 2600 bands). Compatible phones such as the S21 support 20+20+20+20+20 = 100 MHz carrier aggregation (CA) resulting in 4G CA speeds rivaling that of single carrier 5G. I guess Spark is in no hurry to refarm the 15 MHz of 3G they currently operate in 850 MHz!

I confess to being surprised Vodafone is leading the move to remove 3G. I expected 2degrees to do this well before the other two but I wonder if their possibly premature 2G switch off has put them in a awkward situation with industrial data devices needing either 2G or 3G to operate so they sort of do need to keep 3G going for some time while Vodafone can just have industrial data devices fall back to GSM.

I suspect won't be long before Spark is the only carrier in NZ with 3G. Spark could pare down their 850 MHz network to a single 3G carrier of 5 MHz to support industrial data etc and refarming the remaining 10 MHZ to LTE and/or NR and adding these into the CA mix for rural sites.

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#2966520 13-Sep-2022 10:15

MadEngineer:

Is it just me or is it when you fall back to 3G the data connection can be next to useless if not completely dead? I've not experienced this first hand but have had plenty of such complaints.

It's not just you.

That is exactly what I find. I have been told that the dead data is a problem with the number of data connections that 3g can support, and they are out of capacity for them. Kinda says it all about vodafones 4g coverage when there are so many falled back to 3g that it doesnt work.

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#2966580 13-Sep-2022 11:10

MadEngineer:

Is it just me or is it when you fall back to 3G the data connection can be next to useless if not completely dead? I've not experienced this first hand but have had plenty of such complaints.

I live in the middle of an urban suburb, and there is no 4G coverage whatsoever. I cannot take a phone or FaceTime call out of the house and into the car with me as it will drop out when connecting to 3G. Going to be interesting once 3G is turned off!

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#2966589 13-Sep-2022 12:14

Interesting to see so many people in this thread choosing to ignore the fact 4G coverage is currently deliberately turned down and is not operating at its full potential. It has been explained several times that this due to an old requirement that 4G data-only coverage must not exceed 3G voice coverage (to ensure 3G fall back is always available for voice calls). This has been explained several times in this thread alone (and elsewhere on Geekzone) by people who really do know their stuff. 4G coverage can be improved once 3G fallback is not required and the Vodafone press release suggests this is what will happen. There is also scope to even expand usable 4G 700 MHz coverage beyond current usable 3G 900 MHz coverage given the greater reach of 700 MHz signals as well as LTE's more graceful handling of low signal conditions. I am also aware of some of the small number of 3G 900 only towers which being supplemented with 4G 900—as is already happening in Wellington. Great news IMHO and not the doomsday situation some seem to be expecting.

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#2966592 13-Sep-2022 12:18

@KiwiSurfer in my situation it is due to geography, and sometimes it just isn't economical to commission another site. But yes I can see in other circumstances it will improve the strength and coverage of 4G.

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#2966594 13-Sep-2022 12:31

halper86:

@KiwiSurfer in my situation it is due to geography, and sometimes it just isn't economical to commission another site. But yes I can see in other circumstances it will improve the strength and coverage of 4G.

You just said previously you currently get dropped back to 3G. Situations like yours will either see (1) in most cases an improved 4G service from the cell tower you currently get 3G services from so you will likely get a more usable 4G signal rather than the unusable 3G signal you get currently or (2) in the rare case the cell tower you currently get 3G services from happens to be 3G only then 4G will be added providing a more usable service than currently. The only situation I can foresee you losing service is if the cell tower is removed altogether which is unlikely.

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#2966886 14-Sep-2022 02:13

KiwiSurfer:

Interesting to see so many people in this thread choosing to ignore the fact 4G coverage is currently deliberately turned down and is not operating at its full potential. It has been explained several times that this due to an old requirement that 4G data-only coverage must not exceed 3G voice coverage (to ensure 3G fall back is always available for voice calls). This has been explained several times in this thread alone (and elsewhere on Geekzone) by people who really do know their stuff. 4G coverage can be improved once 3G fallback is not required and the Vodafone press release suggests this is what will happen. There is also scope to even expand usable 4G 700 MHz coverage beyond current usable 3G 900 MHz coverage given the greater reach of 700 MHz signals as well as LTE's more graceful handling of low signal conditions. I am also aware of some of the small number of 3G 900 only towers which being supplemented with 4G 900—as is already happening in Wellington. Great news IMHO and not the doomsday situation some seem to be expecting.

Although my original post was a while back, the issue isn't about Vodafone turning down the signal, it is the fact that they don't even have 700MHz operating on the towers where I live:

Let's assume we take your argument on board, the Spark towers have both 700Mhz (4G) and 850Mhz (3G) operating where I live has no problem giving me a solid 4G connection so why doesn't Vodafone do the same as Spark and thus limit 4G coverage to the same coverage as their 3G 900MHz foot print resulting in a similar level of service as I would get on Spark?

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#2968064 14-Sep-2022 12:14

matisyahu:

Although my original post was a while back, the issue isn't about Vodafone turning down the signal, it is the fact that they don't even have 700MHz operating on the towers where I live:

The remaining sites which don't yet have LTE 700 deployed often seem to be the sites with old antennas only capable of 900/1800/2100 MHz. Some sites may see the antennas replaced with 700/900/1800/2100 capable antennas. On the other hand there are some sites where Vodafone will retain the existing antenna equipment and deploy LTE 900 at these sites by installing equipment in the base station cabinet and operating LTE/UMTS/GSM 900 via the existing antenna setup. This is what 2degrees have successfully done at 100s of sites around the country greatly improving their LTE coverage. I am not familiar with the details of the Wellington LTE 900 rollout (hopefully someone can add more detail to this) but my guess is that the sites you mention have already had this work done or they are going to have it done before 3G switch off.

Let's assume we take your argument on board, the Spark towers have both 700Mhz (4G) and 850Mhz (3G) operating where I live has no problem giving me a solid 4G connection so why doesn't Vodafone do the same as Spark and thus limit 4G coverage to the same coverage as their 3G 900MHz foot print resulting in a similar level of service as I would get on Spark?

I agree Vodafone could have done more to optimise their LTE footprint. They seem to be the most conservative among the three carriers when it comes to their 4G footprint. Spark/2degrees runs 4G really closely to 3G to the point I know of spots where LTE works but UMTS doesn't. But again this announcement means Vodafone has no option but to eventually maximize their LTE footprint. This won't happen overnight as there will be heaps of engineering work being done to work out the new parameters etc but I am sure it will come. I really can't see Vodafone turning off 3G without making sure the 4G coverage footprint is at least on par with 3G.

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#2968099 14-Sep-2022 14:07

Vodafone did a lot of L900 upgrades in Wellington over a year ago.

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#2968417 15-Sep-2022 09:43

quickymart:

MikeAqua:

I have notice big chunks of Marlborough where my Vodafone device reverts to 4G. This includes parts of SH6 and SH1 and parts of some the town like Picton and Havelock.

I guess those will now be no coverage areas?

If you have 4G coverage you'll be fine - or did you mean 3G? 😉

Sorry I meant 3G.

If all the current 3G coverage areas fall over, then we'll be ditching Vodafone as a network provider.

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#2968489 15-Sep-2022 10:56

@MikeAqua Of course Vodafone will make sure 4G coverage will match or exceed the current 3G footprint. As said about 5+ times they have 2 years to get ready for the 3G shutdown and then turn up the power to what it should be on 4G

I wish 2degrees and Spark would announce the same news

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