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Topic # 14585 10-Jul-2007 17:53
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Hello guys... I have an 028 number with 2talk.co.nz for use on my laptop. I am calling from my WxC line but it says "This number is not in service".

Any ideas?





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  Reply # 77646 10-Jul-2007 18:11
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I know Telecom customers can not call Slingshots VOIP service, due to a lack of an Interconnection agreement, Perhaps this is also the case here?

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  Reply # 77647 10-Jul-2007 18:16
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028 numbers are not new though, CallPlus have had active numbers for about 2 years now. I wonder if it's an issue with particular number ranges?


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  Reply # 77650 10-Jul-2007 18:45
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freitasm: Hello guys... I have an 028 number with 2talk.co.nz for use on my laptop. I am calling from my WxC line but it says "This number is not in service".

Any ideas?



028, according to the NAD are a 'special case'. As I understand it they have not been loaded on many carriers switchs and interconnect points and there is an open item on their status (02x is for mobility services, not geographic services like fixed line stuff).

This may sound trite but geographic vs mobile is what determines whether the interconnect is $0.26/minute or $0.03/minute....




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  Reply # 77653 10-Jul-2007 19:18
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The problem here is that we believe the number range is incorrect, for 02xy and 02xyz this number range is a NON Geographicial Number Range and must comply with the NAD rules for it, the Min digit length is 10 028 + 7 not 028 + 6 we will not pass short digits based on this it looks like 2Talk have allocated Numbers 1 digit short they will need to look at this we will not be passing 028 + 6 as it is incorrect sorry,

sorry about the late reply...no power on the North Shore for a few Hours Laughing

Extract is from NAD Rules found Here,
http://www.nz.m-co.com/upload/sectionimages/13578_Number_Allocation_Rules_v1.9__FINAL.pdf

This Number Range 028 Is A NON GEOGRAPHICAL SERVICE


3. RULES FOR NON-GEOGRAPHIC SERVICE CODES
These rules apply to the allocation and Use of Non-geographic Service
Codes.
3.1. Service Category
3.1.1. Non-Geographic Service Code Blocks are allocated for use as a prefix to
end-user numbers, without a geographic structure, which can originate or
terminate calls over Public Switched Telecommunications Networks.

3.2. Number Format and Restrictions
3.2.1. Code Blocks are allocated at either the 02XY or 02XYZ level. The
Management Committee will, from time to time, designate Code Blocks
to be allocated at the 02XYZ level.
3.2.2. The minimum total length of numbers using these Code Blocks is 10
digits, i.e. 02XY + 6 digits and 02XYZ + 5 digits. Except that allocations
made prior to the date of introduction of these rules may continue to be
associated with end-users and end-user terminals at the same number of
digits as at that date and Number Utilisation will be calculated on that
basis.




Yes I am a employee of WxC (My Profile) ... but I do have my own opinions as well Wink

             

https://www.facebook.com/wxccommunications

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  Reply # 77656 10-Jul-2007 19:39
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the 028 8xx xxx range has being in use before that document however, 028 88mail to get your italk voicemail has being around for ages, someone else will know how long exactly.

I remember when I was trying to check my voicemail from mums place ages back, and ihug didn't recognize it as a valid number. had to 059 it to get thru.




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  Reply # 77657 10-Jul-2007 20:27
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nzbnw: I know Telecom customers can not call Slingshots VOIP service,

nzbnw


huh? what do u mean? this isnt true, works fine calling iTalk from telecom, vodafone etc.

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  Reply # 77660 10-Jul-2007 20:38
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dan:
nzbnw: I know Telecom customers can not call Slingshots VOIP service,

nzbnw


huh? what do u mean? this isnt true, works fine calling iTalk from telecom, vodafone etc.


I think he means the 028 2talk service, not the 2talk local numbers of italk local numbers.


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Reply # 77661 10-Jul-2007 20:39
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He means telecom -> 028, not telecom -> italk local number.




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  Reply # 77667 10-Jul-2007 20:58
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telecom landline to 028 worked when I tried it, telecom landline via ihug tolls didnt. That was pre 2talk launch, so perhaps ihug have pulled finger and fixed it now?




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  Reply # 77673 10-Jul-2007 21:34
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The NAD rules document that Phil referred to was first published on 18 October 2000 (see page 34 for details).  Slingshot says iTALK was developed in 2004 (see "What is iTALK" page on their site).  The rules were published long before iTALK, the rules are right.  Any connection issues are due to iTALK not adhering to the rules.




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  Reply # 77737 11-Jul-2007 14:15
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I wasnt impressed when I got my last Telecom bill as I had made several calls to 028 88 MAIL and found out this is charged at mobile rates! (71c/m from my Telecom line).

They are conveniently forgotten to mention that this will be a chargeable call on the iTalk website. Having not seen an 028 number before I just assumed it was something similar to the Telecom equivilent, 083210 (Or indeed the VFX 082210 number)




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  Reply # 77772 11-Jul-2007 17:45
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adamj: ... They are conveniently forgotten to mention that this will be a chargeable call on the iTalk website.



Breach of the Fair Trading Act..?

[I couldn't find it anywhere on their website either]




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  Reply # 78114 14-Jul-2007 20:03
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munchkin: Breach of the Fair Trading Act..?

[I couldn't find it anywhere on their website either]


Doubt it. 02X is known to be mobile by the majority of the general public, and mobile rates should be expected. CallPlus has no control of the price other carriers charge their customers.

Back OT, I have sent a complaint to Callplus, as well as the Number Administration Deed administrators, and have had no reply from any of them. Here's the email:


From: Will Steele
Sent: Friday, 15 June 2007 7:48 a.m.
To: 'cts'; 'Malcolm Dick'; 'Adrian Dick'; 'Martin Wylie'
Cc: 'Redial Comms'; 'Number Administration Deed'
Subject: 028 allocation in breach of NAD rules

 

Hello everyone,

As you are no doubt aware, CallPlus’ allocation on the Number Administration Deed (NAD) of 028 87, 028 88, and 028 89 is at the 02 XYZ level.

The NAD rules (since 8 Sept 2000, around 15 months prior to CallPlus’ allocation) state:

3.2.2. The minimum total length of numbers using these Code Blocks is 10 digits, i.e. 02XY + 6 digits and 02XYZ + 5 digits. Except that allocations made prior to the date of introduction of these rules may continue to be associated with end-users and end-user terminals at the same number of digits as at that date and Number Utilisation will be calculated on that basis.

Several providers (notably international providers, as well as at least one local provider) are refusing to pass calls to CallPlus’ 028 range because the 9 digit numbers provided by the www.2talk.co.nz Voice over IP (VoIP) service fail to comply with the above rule.

Please try to get this rectified as soon as possible so that call routing in New Zealand continues to function smoothly, and I look forward to hearing from you.

Kind Regards,

Will Steele


EDIT: And I've just sent a further email to the NAD, ComCom, and TUANZ asking for their assistance since CallPlus hasn't responded:


Hi there,

Please see the below email to CallPlus on the 15th June regarding their breach of the Number Administration Deed rules. To this date, no response has been received from CallPlus on this matter, and some telco’s are still refusing to route calls to their 028 numbers. This will not only be causing confusion to the general public, but also makes New Zealand appear to the international community to be similar to Gibraltar, a country with ongoing disputes over their network numbering schemes.

I look forward to hearing from you in response to this issue, and hope that you can assist in making CallPlus comply with the rules that all other carriers in the industry have to as well.

Kind Regards,

Will Steele



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  Reply # 78121 14-Jul-2007 22:18
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willnz: ... 02X is known to be mobile by the majority of the general public, and mobile rates should be expected. CallPlus has no control of the price other carriers charge their customers. ...


I disagree with this statement. I'd never seen an 028 number before and as I knew I wasnt calling a mobile I did not expect to be charged land to mobile rates. I (wrongly) assumed that I would not be charged as all 02 numbers are not charged the sale (Take 026 pager numbers for example) and this wasnt any kind of mobile service.




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  Reply # 78134 15-Jul-2007 07:38
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adamj: I disagree with this statement. I'd never seen an 028 number before and as I knew I wasnt calling a mobile I did not expect to be charged land to mobile rates. I (wrongly) assumed that I would not be charged as all 02 numbers are not charged the sale (Take 026 pager numbers for example) and this wasnt any kind of mobile service.


Yes, but 026 numbers are still charged, even at a slightly lower rate. The general assumption is, or should be, that if you're calling a non-geographical number it will be a chargeable call. 083210 is a difficult one, as it's a "value-added service" number. Generally, if a telco provides a service on 08X (other than free phone), they won't charge for calls to it, but other carriers might.

The general rule of thumb is, if a number isn't local, isn't toll free, and you haven't been explicitly told that calls to that number are free, then you should either expect to be charged for the call, or you should confirm whether it is a chargeable call or not with your telco.



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