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jasonnewlands

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#21840 8-May-2008 14:25
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Sorry if this is discussed somewhere else in the forums - I couldn't find it!

I have a new parallel imported Nokia E65 which I set it up with the vodafone settings. I was merrily browsing around the vodafone live website which is supposedly 'Free to browse'.

Then I checked my balance which had gone down dramatically.

I went into a Vodafone shop to talk to someone about it - they said as the phone is parallel imported it accesses vodafone live differently to a Vodafone NZ phone would, so this is why I am getting charged.

Has anyone else experienced this, or can anyone else confirm this? Or have I just set up my phone wrong? I got the settings sent from wireless.vodafone.co.nz.

Any help/comments are appreciated! Thanks.


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NZtechfreak
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  #129368 8-May-2008 14:29
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Sounds like a mistake to me, either in setup or on their end. Double check your settings against what Vodafone says to use, and then if its still no go then try and get someone who knows anything at Customer Service to help you (that will be difficult I'm afraid).




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tonyhughes
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  #129371 8-May-2008 14:36
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You will come up against the issue that Vodafone has had no control over your handset, and that just about anything could be happening to incur your data traffic.

I suggest very politely asking someone in the know here. The person I am thinking of is surely only moments away from posting in this thread anyway.... Wink







NZtechfreak
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  #129397 8-May-2008 15:56
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tonyhughes: You will come up against the issue that Vodafone has had no control over your handset, and that just about anything could be happening to incur your data traffic.

I suggest very politely asking someone in the know here. The person I am thinking of is surely only moments away from posting in this thread anyway.... Wink


E65 is supported by Vodafone, so whether the handset is PI or purchased from Vodafone shouldn't matter as far as I'm aware, which is why I think there is an error here on one end or the other.

But as you say, someone who knows will likely be posting here at any moment Wink




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brentbart
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  #129478 8-May-2008 20:15
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To me, isn't this just showing that if you parallel imported phones that you should go back to the place you bought it for them to look after. They have supplied the device, they should also provide product support. Surely they can't say "get Vodafone to fix it". Wish I could say "Get Nokia to fix it" but can't - so I think the onus has to be on the company that sold you the device to ensure that its going to work correctly in the country its been sold in.

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#129480 8-May-2008 20:29
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There is one thing you have to consider when using parallel imported handsets: is it really just browsing Vodafone?

Are you sure the firmware is not checking for udpates, or any other pre-installed software is doing some updates in the background?

There was a case a couple of years ago of someone here on Geekzone who spent months contacting Vodafone about incorrect WAP charges. After a few traces it was found that his phone, running the China Mobile firmware, was connecting to a China Mobile server every time he started a WAP session, to check for updates.

So you never know what your phone is doing...

And no, I don't think the Vodafone store was correct saying Vodafone charges differently if you have an imported handset.





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cokemaster
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#129495 8-May-2008 20:43
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freitasm:

There was a case a couple of years ago of someone here on Geekzone who spent months contacting Vodafone about incorrect WAP charges. After a few traces it was found that his phone, running the China Mobile firmware, was connecting to a China Mobile server every time he started a WAP session, to check for updates.



Indeed. It looked harmless, and even through multiple resets - it kept doing it.
Put the SIM into another phone, flashed with a Chinese branded firmware - same thing.
Put the SIM into a NZ sold mobile, no issues.

I know a lot of proponents of parallel importers or importing your own handset will push the price factor, but remember this - you imported the device, the operator cannot verify or really support the device to the ends of the earth like a local handset. Pricing margins aside, part of the local handset price will go towards support and servicing of that mobile.

Local handsets have firmware that has been tested and approved by the operator. Local phones can also be serviced locally without jumping through flaming hoops. It means that if things like this happen on a vanilla set up, then it becomes the operators problem and they can replicate it, unlike someones imported handset running an unknown revision of software which may be connecting to a server for unknown reasons. Lets not go into the 'cooked' roms which are running home made revisions which could be potentially dangerous (due to anyone installing apps/'features' that could start using data/services).

If you buy imported phones, or use custom firmwares - be aware what you are potentially getting yourself into (which is why I worry about some people modding their Telecom Apaches/Touches), the network will happily supply the service... if your phone goes haywire and uses those services - its your responsibility at the end of the day. As suggested if you have issues with a parallel imported phone, try contacting the parallel importer for support.




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ninjabear
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  #129496 8-May-2008 20:44
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brentbart: To me, isn't this just showing that if you parallel imported phones that you should go back to the place you bought it for them to look after. They have supplied the device, they should also provide product support. Surely they can't say "get Vodafone to fix it". Wish I could say "Get Nokia to fix it" but can't - so I think the onus has to be on the company that sold you the device to ensure that its going to work correctly in the country its been sold in.



Stores is not liable to tell you that vodafone is charging you for charges.How are they suppose to know where you intending to use the handset?

You could well buy it from their store and use it in egypt

it is not the store's problem.They provide the device that works however they have no control what network providers do.It is out of their control
The mobile works and it does the things what it suppose to do.

I mean I could buy  a vodafone handset at vodafone here.Go back to hong kong and say join the network CSL and then I find it doesn't connect to wap while it works with vodafone.Am I suppose to go back to vodafone and ask why it doesn't work with the CSL network?It doesn't work that way



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  #129501 8-May-2008 20:59
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ninjabear:

it is not the store's problem.They provide the device that works however they have no control what network providers do.It is out of their control
The mobile works and it does the things what it suppose to do.

It was always my understanding that a dealer provided some form support for the products and services that the telco sold.

I mean I could buy a vodafone handset at vodafone here.Go back to hong kong and say join the network CSL and then I find it doesn't connect to wap while it works with vodafone.Am I suppose to go back to vodafone and ask why it doesn't work with the CSL network?It doesn't work that way


Thanks to Vodafones latest tactic, your 'Vodafone experience' will be saved. You'll need to roam or pay to unlock the phone, improving your experience.

Otherwise new phones won't be able to use the CSL SIM card because they are locked (some may argue that you get more functionality getting the invalid SIM screen than you do in many parts of New Zealand with very slow GPRS coverage).




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NZtechfreak
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  #129504 8-May-2008 21:15
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Good point Freitasm, thats the difference between phones that are 100% unlocked, and those that are sold with an overseas carriers firmware on them (usually that carrier will have some sort of branding evident, like a startup animation or such like, a friend had one on his N82 a little while back before I reflashed it to generic Nokia firmware).

If they have overseas firmware then you can debrand it just like you can with a Vodafone branded handset, so thats easily fixed (the symbian smartphone forum has threads that can instruct you, or catch the link to my blog and read the post on GPS in NZ which links to the appropriate pages).




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brentbart
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  #129520 8-May-2008 21:50
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ninjabear:
brentbart: To me, isn't this just showing that if you parallel imported phones that you should go back to the place you bought it for them to look after. They have supplied the device, they should also provide product support. Surely they can't say "get Vodafone to fix it". Wish I could say "Get Nokia to fix it" but can't - so I think the onus has to be on the company that sold you the device to ensure that its going to work correctly in the country its been sold in.



Stores is not liable to tell you that vodafone is charging you for charges.How are they suppose to know where you intending to use the handset?


I still think that is like importing a car from overseas, having it break down and contacting Land Transport New Zealand to tell them it doesn't work on their roads so it fix it.

Vodafone can tell you if your connection is setup correctly as thats the "contract" they have with you. Didn't provide you with the handset as you got it cheaper so its it fair that they then need to get the handset you bought elsewhere and change its settings so that it works on the network ? I personally don't think it is. And only an opinion from someone who doesn't matter at all.

I think this is going to get more and more prevelant if other providers in NZ sell the iphone for instance so perhaps something that needs to be 'set in stone' now industry wide. All well and good to get a bargain but it also comes with a risk.

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  #129557 8-May-2008 23:40
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Hmm its like

importing a overseas car that doesn't work in nz and you go complaining to land and transport about the problem  but why should they care cos you imported it overseas?

You buy a electronic thats 110V in america.Bring it over to NZ which is 220v.They didn't tell you that the voltage is different so you plug it in and blow the fuse box.You call the powerco company to fix the problem and demand the shop to pay for the repair charges cos they didn't tell you that it doesn't work over in NZ.

Doesn't make much sense.

I think you should go back and talk to vodafone about.Simply saying cos its parallel imported is not good enough

Vodafone often blames the problem is because its parallel imported but not often the case.They are lazy to figure out the problem.I experienced that all the time for the past few years.

I had a N73 that didnt work and was blame that it was a parallel handset thats why pxtging didn't work.Ran a few times and finally it was at their end that was the problem

mikal
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  #129560 9-May-2008 00:06
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Imho its more like if someone started importing Sky Decoders and chucking the smart-cards into them to get them going, do you think SkyTV should do the best they can to get you up and running even though you got the decoder elsewhere?

eXDee
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  #129561 9-May-2008 00:29
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mikal: Imho its more like if someone started importing Sky Decoders and chucking the smart-cards into them to get them going, do you think SkyTV should do the best they can to get you up and running even though you got the decoder elsewhere?

Probably not, but you'd damn well expect it at $80 a month and getting higher.

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  #129563 9-May-2008 00:58
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ninjabear:
You buy a electronic thats 110V in america.Bring it over to NZ which is 220v.They didn't tell you that the voltage is different so you plug it in and blow the fuse box.You call the powerco company to fix the problem and demand the shop to pay for the repair charges cos they didn't tell you that it doesn't work over in NZ.

Doesn't make much sense.


I think you should go back and talk to vodafone about.Simply saying cos its parallel imported is not good enough

Vodafone often blames the problem is because its parallel imported but not often the case.They are lazy to figure out the problem.I experienced that all the time for the past few years.


Sorry, I think you miss the point.

The applicance case is simple, as the electronic was sold for the American market. The onus is on you, the importer to conduct the required research to ensure that it will work in a New Zealand environment. If you need to, you may require a stepdown adapter to convert the voltage.

Going back on topic:

Parallel or imported phones run a configuation which is not tested or certified with the local operator in New Zealand. With phones being ever more complex, its not uncommon for applications on the devices to have the capacity to phone home. I've had that issue with Sony Ericcson P910.

If you purchase a local device, then its running an operator approved configuation and so if there are any issues such as charges every time you open a wap browser- they are in a position to help a lot more.

Vodafone provide a service (mobile data), they don't proactively monitor it to see if its a background application or a browser request etc - if your phone requests it, their system will deliver it.

My advice is to confirm with Vodafone that the charges are for 'off menu' browsing. Once its confirmed, try it in another (Vodafone sold) phone, and see if there are any charges.

If there aren't then you can be pretty sure its the phone - and the only place to go is store that sold you it.

No matter how you spin this - this is the ugly side of imported/non operator approved firmwares...




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ninjabear
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  #129568 9-May-2008 05:35
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I still don't believe its the store's fault

I actually don't think parallel imported are tested or certfied to work with Vodafone NZ as they are only doing their business ofselling  a mobile to you to se if it works.

If a person who buys it and uses it somewhere else are they suppose to go back to the shop why doesn't it work with the usa CDMA network?


But I guess you can perhaps ask the shop to what is happening.I think vodafone would give a better indication to whats happening

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