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Topic # 22660 4-Jun-2008 13:19
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Hi,

our flat is looking for a known good router / dhcp server that we can use to share the Telstra broadband around the flat. We have tried both a Dlink DIR 120 and netgear rp614 to share up to 4 wired connections but no sucess. 3 geeks have tired and failed. Ideally we dont need wireless access but I'm guessing that we could use just a wireless router and turn off the wireless bit? I know that both the d link and the net gear routers should work with some minor configuration but they have not. 

Ideas for other pieces of gear are most welcome, if they fail, I might have to get someone in!!! to set it up.

thanks

Knoydart

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  Reply # 135448 4-Jun-2008 14:19
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I'd get a good wireless router just in case you ever need to use wifi - which is super handy...and then just connect a switch to the router for your cabled computers.  Can't go wrong with a good switch. dlink and belkin do some good ones.

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  Reply # 135453 4-Jun-2008 14:49
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Both of those routers you mentioned should work fine, I'm not sure what you did wrong!

Personally I would recommend a Linksys WRT54GL (note the GL not the G model) with 3rd party firmware such as Sveasoft Talisman or DD-WRT. This router lets you use 3rd party firmware and with either of these firmware distributions you will have a rock solid router that will never crash.

There are some issues on the TCL cable network with excessive ARP traffic causing some low end routers to lock up continually, this is not an issue that will occur with a WRT54GL.





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  Reply # 135466 4-Jun-2008 16:22
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I would love to know what we did wrong but...! The netgear is still sitting unloved under my flatmate's computer. Anyway will go shopping for the Linksys next week when pay day comes around.

Thanks for the advice

Knoydart

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  Reply # 135485 4-Jun-2008 16:52
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The fact you couldn't get it going suggests you were using incorrect settings. If that was the case then you probably won't have much luck with a Linksys either.

What configuration settings were you using and what was going wrong?

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  Reply # 135495 4-Jun-2008 17:24
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I have dealt with both the routers your mention on TCLs network, they all work fine, so its something your not doing right.

Cyril



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  Reply # 135500 4-Jun-2008 17:37
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Well with both of them, we initally decided on the "simple" install, put in your modems given Ip address, dns server ect... and its ment to work. With both routers, we then double checked the settings that were saved, checking again and again that they were correct but still no go.

The Netgear would work for one pc with the surfboard in the WAN port but when a second computer was plugged into port 2, the second computer would fail to see the outside world. It would get an ip address from the DHCP server on the netgear and you could ping computer 2 from computer 1, however the other way round didnt happen. Possible human interface error once but hopefully not twice!


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  Reply # 135504 4-Jun-2008 17:53
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cyril7: I have dealt with both the routers your mention on TCLs network, they all work fine, so its something your not doing right.

A friend of mine used the Netgear RP614 and had problems with semi-infrequent disconnects, the IP Address subnet change did make things slightly better, however when we replaced it for a WRT54GL with DD-WRT the problems went away.  The problem seems to relly exhibit itself on extremely busy networks.  If your "network activity" light on your Cable modem is solid "on" and doesn't intermittently flash, then you know you have a busy node.





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  Reply # 135512 4-Jun-2008 18:51
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Combined modem-routers are almost universally poop.  Enter our saviour: PPP half bridge mode!!!!

Modem:

Dynalink RTA1320 - Free from most ISP's when you signup, or ~$25 on trademe
OR
Linksys AM300 - check trademe and pricespy

- Updating to the latest firmware is a must for either

Wireless/Basic DHCP Router:
Linksys WRT54GL - check trademe and pricespy

- Update to a custom community made firmware with nifty QoS etc
www.polarcloud.com/tomato


Setup:
Some guy made a decent guide like a year ago...
http://www.ben.geek.nz/adsl-routing-solution-in-detail/



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  Reply # 135514 4-Jun-2008 18:57
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Just like to point out, the modem is a cable one supplied by Telstra.

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  Reply # 135517 4-Jun-2008 19:26
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Ragnor: Combined modem-routers are almost universally poop.  Enter our saviour: PPP half bridge mode!!!!

Modem:

Dynalink RTA1320 - Free from most ISP's when you signup, or ~$25 on trademe
OR
Linksys AM300 - check trademe and pricespy

- Updating to the latest firmware is a must for either

Wireless/Basic DHCP Router:
Linksys WRT54GL - check trademe and pricespy

- Update to a custom community made firmware with nifty QoS etc
www.polarcloud.com/tomato


Setup:
Some guy made a decent guide like a year ago...
http://www.ben.geek.nz/adsl-routing-solution-in-detail/


This is for TCL's cable network, not an ADSL connection, so none of the modems you mentioned above are any good for TCL cable as they are all ADSL - TCL supply their own Motorola cable modem which just requires a router to be used behind it.



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  Reply # 135522 4-Jun-2008 19:33
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Hi Peter (Bartender) while I acknowledge there are issues with most domestic modems when living in a ARP attack environ which DD-WRT etal do good jobs of dealing with, most of these routers will work well within limitations. Bottom line is all these routers we are dealing with work quite happily on various US and European Docsis systems without issues, I think TCL have some issues to sort out in this respect.

Cyril

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Reply # 135528 4-Jun-2008 19:53
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The only problems I have had with setting up routers connected to Motorola surfboards is where the ISP provides the IP addresses through DHCP and I have had to get the ISP to reset the connection before it would take up the MAC address (I assumed that is why it would let the old device work but not the new one until we got the connection reset) of the new router and issue an IP.
That was in Russia and the UK in Bosnia it just worked after plugging in the router.

Thats my expirence of them anyway I have not worked on a site that requires you to put the details in Manually yet.

When I am back in wellington later this year am looking at using Telstra clear for my internet so the information so far has been useful.

Dion

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  Reply # 135539 4-Jun-2008 20:30
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cyril7: Hi Peter (Bartender) while I acknowledge there are issues with most domestic modems when living in a ARP attack environ which DD-WRT etal do good jobs of dealing with, most of these routers will work well within limitations. Bottom line is all these routers we are dealing with work quite happily on various US and European Docsis systems without issues, I think TCL have some issues to sort out in this respect.


It seems to me not that I know much about Docsis or how the underlying physical networking is connected, but understand the OSI layer.  TCL implement their Nodes which are scattered around the city in "switch" mode rather than "router" mode.  This means that it's one big fat broadcast domain for ALL of wellington, granted each node won't forward non-IP directed Unicasts to the default routes giving you internet access.  This was proven to me when I took my Docsis router from Miramar (where I live) to Waikanae Beach (where we have a beach house) and plugged it into the cable network there, and after powering on my router with the same static IP I was away.  Now to me that means that their L1/L2 network running the docsis and IP broadcasts are bound to the cable modems, yet their L3 IP network is run "ontop" of their Docsis network, but not in any way connected with it, apart from the Source IP address limitations built into the Docsis modem.

Normally worldwide Cable providers run their nodes in "Router" mode, so as a customer you connect your Router and it DHCP's using it's predefined MAC address to the local node, is issued an IP address for that node, and is away.  Otherwise I have heard of other Docsis implementations using PPPoE, so you need to do a PPPoE auth with a username / password to the local node to get you on the network.  As detailed below:

mckenndk: The only problems I have had with setting up routers connected to Motorola surfboards is where the ISP provides the IP addresses through DHCP and I have had to get the ISP to reset the connection before it would take up the MAC address (I assumed that is why it would let the old device work but not the new one until we got the connection reset) of the new router and issue an IP.
That was in Russia and the UK in Bosnia it just worked after plugging in the router.

Thats my expirence of them anyway I have not worked on a site that requires you to put the details in Manually yet.

When I am back in wellington later this year am looking at using Telstra clear for my internet so the information so far has been useful.


Your experence sounds similar to my own experences with Cable Modem networks worldwide.  It just seems that TCL didn't bother to follow that path, and make their lives easier by having a very flat network.  To our detriment.

Hey I could be wrong with all this, wouldn't it be great if a TCL Staffer who knows what they are talking about corrected me on this ;)





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  Reply # 135540 4-Jun-2008 20:39
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Normally worldwide Cable providers run their nodes in "Router" mode, so
as a customer you connect your Router and it DHCP's using it's
predefined MAC address to the local node, is issued an IP address for
that node, and is away


Exactly, to repeat, TCL have some issues to deal with, looking around the planet at other DOCSIS operators I dont see users b1tching about ARP storms like TCL have. The fact that TCL take no reponsibility for CPE end NAT routers or supporting them in some form or manner indicates they dont give a damn.

Anyway thats life, personally I would still run a mile from TCLs service, due to issues presently discussed. The fact that they had to move their DTV modem service into a seperate LAN/carrier to stop their STBs locking up due to ARP storms indicates they are well aware of the issue, just not got the funds or balls to sort it.

Cyril

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  Reply # 135549 4-Jun-2008 21:15
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We have been using a WRT54G (v2.2) router with bog standard firmware on TCL cable for over 3 yrs with virtually nil problems attributable to the router. Perhaps half a dozen router resets over 3 yrs (& probably most of those not really router problems). Set up was a breeze.

The cable system has its occasional hiccups (speed currently under par - Wellington), but overall we have been very satisfied with the service (4-5 concurrent users in the house for much of the time). Typical usage over the last year or so has been ~39GB/mth.


[Clarification]. Though the router has four ports out, we use only one of them. That is fed into one of two 8 port switches, since we have up to 8 PCs (/ laptops) + 2 printers + 1 NAS hooked directly into the network (with another half dozen+ currently unused wall outlets scattered in different rooms). Also downstream switches in a couple of rooms. Very few network problems - and those mostly PC configuration issues.

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