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Master Geek


Topic # 22769 7-Jun-2008 20:29
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Now that VF have ADSL2+ rolling out in Auckland there is an opportunity for TCL to match the plans for their cable customers.

The Ideal Red Plan from VF has upto 20Mbps / 5GB for $80 per month. TCL has (phone & cable) upto (sic) 4Mbps / 5GB for $74.90 at present with a pice increase to $80.90 on 1 July.

I'd be happy to pay $80.90 if my speed was bumped from 4Mbps to 20Mbps. Come on TCL, when are you going to compete?

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  Reply # 136300 7-Jun-2008 21:09
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Vodafone won't make any guarentee on what your actual line speed will be, as you know; unbundling just means the copper can be plugged to someone else's DSLAM, not Telecoms. A 3KM copper run is still a 3KM copper run.

With Cable if you're offered a 10mb or 4mb service, then you'll get it.

To everyone else: this isn't a request to start flames on TCL's cable congestion. Every ISP has a congested network at some point in time!

So, what price more certainty......




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  Reply # 136305 7-Jun-2008 21:33
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Really, TCL cable is a CIR service? Because thats not what the retail or wholesale SLA's state.

 
 
 
 


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  Reply # 136310 7-Jun-2008 21:49
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Putting best effect service between cable and DSL aside, when it comes to competition, Vodafones LLU offering isn't directly competing with telstras cable network until Vodafone launch a network in Wellington.




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Reply # 136319 7-Jun-2008 22:33
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cokemaster: Putting best effect service between cable and DSL aside, when it comes to competition, Vodafones LLU offering isn't directly competing with telstras cable network until Vodafone launch a network in Wellington.


Exactly. I came here just to post about this - I can't see why the OP posted this - they are not in direct competition since there's no cable network in Auckland, there's no Vodafone network in Wellington...




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  Reply # 136362 8-Jun-2008 09:00
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The discussion will be come more interesting when Vodafone launches in Wellington which according to their press release they weill. Perhaps by that time Telecom would have picked off the more affluent suburbs and cabinetised them! So Vodafone can't do anything from my understanding since there will be no DSLAM's to replace.

Assuming Vodafone could install their gear in exchanges to compete with TCL it will come down to speed and pricing. If you are withing 3-600m of an exchange you might get faster speed than TCL's max at the moment (when are TCL releasing 25mbs in Wellington?) - then again because of crappy copper you might not.   When TCL's cable works, it does offer constant speed irrespective of where you are.




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  Reply # 136372 8-Jun-2008 10:26
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One other thing to factor in is that TCL's current pricing has effectively unchanged for probably 2-3 years now. Vodafone have undercut the rest of the ADLSL+POTS market quite substancially to get to the pricepoints they have launched so I'm sure TCL are keeping any eye on what is happening.

I personally aren't concerned about price anyway but Vodafone's new plan actually works out more expensive than what I have at present. I would never go back to a POTS voice solution after having been VoIP only for the last 2 years. I spend less than $90 per month for my broadband (20GB TCL plan for $69.95) + both Wellington & Melbourne phone numbers and probably 100+ calls to Aussie per month @ A12c untimed and approximately 10-20 mins worth of calls inside NZ @ 5c per minute.

As for speed remember that the network is in the process of a major upgrade, over the coming months as all ISP's roll out ADSL2+ plans and more exchanged are unbundled it wouldn't surprise me if TCL offers 25Mbps as standard for everything but low end plans.

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  Reply # 136396 8-Jun-2008 11:41
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I hope TCL provides 25mbs soon to all customers. It's not like giving more data to them which would cost them. Just means our data caps will be reached more quickly!




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  Reply # 136401 8-Jun-2008 11:57

Vodafone's network will be available in Wellington from October so yes, it will be interesting to see what the market does at that point...

Don't forget, TelstraClear has said it will unbundle as well but without any detail. That also will be interesting.

Cheers

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  Reply # 136560 8-Jun-2008 22:45
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I'm keen to see what offer TCL would have with running their own gear in the exchanges, my understanding is LLU was one of the reasons they canned plans to build a Cable network in Auckland? (also apart from John Banks not keen on the idea of black overhead cables)

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  Reply # 136584 9-Jun-2008 06:59
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So much as TCL and VF are not current competitors in Wellington and Auckland for non-UBS/WBS etc services, it will be interesting to see whether TCL waits until there is physical competition before increasing speeds/lowering prices, or whether they will do it sooner alongside some agressive marketing to capture some more customers and customer loyalty ahead of Vodafone and others' deployments.

I will be impressed if they put in place a roadmap of technology upgrades that allow them to be able to continue to use the 'fastest residential broadband' line, and particularly one that involves proactive improvement rather than reactive. (Ie keep upgrading and improving the service to stay ahead rather than just waiting untill someone else comes along with something better and then suddenly having to upgrade). Seems like they have learnt some lessons from aggressive marketing without consideration of their technical impact so I would assume that such roadmaps and the like are now in their minds.

Theroretically with LLU induced competition they should have no option but to continually improve themselve in order to retain and gain customers both on the technical and marketing fronts. They might have to learn a little about real competition to keep customers on their cable network - untill now the only (technically) better options have been from commercial grade connections.

"Theoretically" ... ;)

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  Reply # 136593 9-Jun-2008 07:58
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I could be mistaken here but I thought for the TCL phone network, they don't have exchanges. In Wellington anyway, there is one exchange out in Petone(?) (a Nortel box) and fibre goes out to the suburbs into small cabinets where copper and coax are distributed. If that is the case not sure how the loop could be unbundled since just like Telecom's new cabinets, there would be no room in them for another player's gear.





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  Reply # 136643 9-Jun-2008 11:39
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As an existing TCL cable customer in Christchurch.

If I find that TCL are late to the price and speed party. I see no need to stick with a company that would rather squeeze money and profit, ahead of healthy competition and moving forward with technology upgrades, (their profit doesn’t help me, but 25mps does!!!!). I fully believe this is the reason Vodafone is beating Telecom in the Mobile world. Vodafone know competition and know how to get new customers on board. Regardless of QOS......money talks.

TCL need to keep their existing customers happy, the technology is sitting there, why not upgrade us before Vodafone gets its marketing machine up to full speed?

Personally if Vodafone give me a better deal, I will jump.

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  Reply # 136650 9-Jun-2008 12:31
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(Disclaimer: I work for TelstraClear.) I cannot comment on our future broadband products. However, a couple of notes in regard to ADSL2+ vs TelstraClear cable:

  • ADSL2+ has a theoretical maximum ADSL speed of 24Mbps. However, this speed declines with distance from the exchange. For example, less than ~50% of existing customers will be able to get an ADSL line rate of 10Mbps or better. This will change once the exchanges have been "cabinetised" (replaced by exchanges). 
  • With TelstraClear cable, you have a 4/10/25 Mbps connection speed regardless of distance.
  • ADSL2+ speeds ("24 Mbps") is the line rate and not the "IP rate" (download rate) that you will achieve. ADSL2+ in NZ is delivered as IP over PPP over ATM over ADSL2+. The PPP and ATM encapsulation overheads adds ~ 15% overhead for large packets (1500 bytes). The overhead is much larger for smaller packets. In other words, if your connect speed is 10Mbps, your IP speed is no more than 8.5Mbps.
  • The TelstraClear cable speeds (4, 10, and 25Mbps) are measured at the IP level and does not count or have the above overheads.
In other words, it is not as simple as comparing ADSL2+ speeds with TelstraClear cable speeds! Also, if you do video calling or photo uploading etc, also consider the upstream speed. ADSL2+ has a max upstream speed of 1Mbps (then take off the distance penalty and the 15% overhead.) All TelstraClear cable plans have a 2Mbps upstream speed.

At the end of the day, the speed will of course also depend on the overall domestic and international network of your ISP. It does not matter if you connect at 10Mbps, but can only download at a much lower speed due to network congestion. Check out Epitoro for independent broadband measurements in NZ. (TelstraClear has been the top provider for the last two quarterly measurement periods.)




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  Reply # 136661 9-Jun-2008 13:29
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Regardless of actual speeds acheived, and I admit Vodafone will try and push the theoritical figures... I don't beleive this is the point of discussion.

Does Telstraclear truly beleive that paying $229 per month for their Wrapspeed 25MB/s and 120GB datacap represents true value for money........when Vodafone who can offer somewhere close to half (10MB/s as an actual and 8.5MB/s as usable) for 1/3 the price? Which in my mind can eaisly stream MPG video, voip, IP TV (god I hope we can get some good quality IP TV).

I'd like to see TCL offer a value for money 25MB/s plan (sub $80 20GB limit) in light of Vodafone about to launch a really good alternative.

This all pales in comparision when you look across the tasman, where for $49.95 TPG give you ADSL2+, 25GB of data, and they throw in IP TV for Free!!!!!!!.



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  Reply # 136663 9-Jun-2008 13:44
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langi27: As an existing TCL cable customer in Christchurch.

If I find that TCL are late to the price and speed party. I see no need to stick with a company that would rather squeeze money and profit, ahead of healthy competition and moving forward with technology upgrades, (their profit doesn’t help me, but 25mps does!!!!). I fully believe this is the reason Vodafone is beating Telecom in the Mobile world. Vodafone know competition and know how to get new customers on board. Regardless of QOS......money talks.

TCL need to keep their existing customers happy, the technology is sitting there, why not upgrade us before Vodafone gets its marketing machine up to full speed?

Personally if Vodafone give me a better deal, I will jump.


I thought TCL lauched the 25Mbps service in Christchurch ~2 months ago?

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