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GDM



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Topic # 25402 20-Aug-2008 14:42
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I'm wondering why the Naked DSL is $70.
River is $34 +- and my telecom line rental is $35 +-
So together that works out the same as Naked DSL or Telecom ADSL - where's my advantage? I lose a good POTS and get a crappy VOIP for the same money.

As a reasonably low download user I could get Telco ASDL at $30+- and 1.50 per gig, which is cheaper than River (for less than 4 gig approx)

I thought that Telecom had to allow access by third parties for only $20 per month??
 So why don't XNET charge that plus the standard DSL charge? eg. $55+-. Now that's a competitive price.

I asked this question of XNET help desk, but of course got no response.
Perhaps I should go back to Telecom, apart from the hype there seems to be no advantage to having xnet for the average user.

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  Reply # 158355 20-Aug-2008 14:52
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You get 75GB FREE offpeak data from 12am till 8am though Xnet with all there plans. So even if you go for the river plan and pay them $34.00 you get 75GB free off peak data.

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  Reply # 158357 20-Aug-2008 15:05
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So you didnt investigate Xnet before joining and now you have issues ?

If you dont like having control over your phone system, free data then Xtra is fine I guess.

But also think about it... yes Telecom offer all the add ons Xnet gives with their voice service, but you pay for them on Telecom...so if you sit down and work it all out youd probably be paying about the same in the end.

And whats crappy about the VOIP exactly ? Have you asked for help from the helpdesk rather than asking them marketing/sales questions which obviously they wont be able to answer ?




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  Reply # 158366 20-Aug-2008 15:16
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I might have known there would be flames from  the XNET fan base.

Contact xnet help desk? In my experience that's difficult. And I actually said that I already tried!

If the help desk can't answer the question do they trash the email? or do they forward it to someone who CAN answer the question, or  - and I know this is completely odd ball - maybe they could vactually ask someone in the office?

75GB - so? what do I need that for? I sleep at night and I don't pirate. I said in my email - 'normal' users. Which to me means those who aren't spending every waking hour on youtube, or downloading DVD copies, or game copies, or thousands of pirated MP3's.

VOIP is free, but it's a low grade service. If you like gadgets, you may like VOIP. If you like a good phone service POTS is much better (and considerably more expensive to provision in comparison). I like the idea of VOIP, I like that its free, but I wouldn't have it if it wasn't free.

Perhaps the next person who responds can actually answer the question rather than demonstrating their inability to comprehend the written word.

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  Reply # 158368 20-Aug-2008 15:21
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Sorry GNM but you may need to do a bit of research. VOIP is not free for a reliable service. Sure there are free options out there, normally with caps on call durations to certains numbers, but if you pay for it then it is usually a good service. Sometimes it is better that a POTS service too.

Who said you had to download illegal files at night? I know of a lot of people who can easily use 50GB+ a month without it being illegal!


As far as cost? Well they charge what they think is reasonable, and customers may what they think is fair. If they do not like it, then they go somewhere that suits them. Quite simple really.

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  Reply # 158371 20-Aug-2008 15:26
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I am on XNET and my VOIP connection has never faulted, I cant tell the difference between it and my old POTS connection, and its so cheap to call overseas etc. If you have a crappy VOIP connection you might have a problem with your equipment . What Router are you using?

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  Reply # 158375 20-Aug-2008 15:31
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You are not comparing apples with apples. The normal Telecom land-line price is $45 per month. The closest equivalent plan is $49.95 per month (Go Express FS/FS + 3GB). So therefore:

Fusion + 3GB = $73 per month

Telecom = $95 per month.

That $20'ish per month is just for access to the copper. You add need to add I think about $28 for the wholesale DSL, then GST, then back-haul etc. So for N-DSL, it costs about $50 before Xnet start adding their services and profit margin to it.

Fusion is not for everyone, but for all the features etc, it i very good value. As for voice quality, this should be as good as land-line. If not, then it is likely an issue with DSL, or you hardware that needs to be resolved.




Chorus has spent $1.4 billion on making their xDSL broadband network faster. If your still stuck on ADSL or VDSL, why not spend from $150 on a master filter install to make sure you are getting the most out of your connection?
I install - Naked DSL, DSL Master Splitters, VoIP, data cabling and general computer support for home and small business.
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  Reply # 158380 20-Aug-2008 15:44
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GDM: VOIP is free, but it's a low grade service. If you like gadgets, you may like VOIP. If you like a good phone service POTS is much better (and considerably more expensive to provision in comparison). I like the idea of VOIP, I like that its free, but I wouldn't have it if it wasn't free.

Perhaps the next person who responds can actually answer the question rather than demonstrating their inability to comprehend the written word.


Firstly let me open by saying you aren't comparing similair products.

As for pricing the price of naked ADSL circuits is set by the commerce commission and is ~$30 incl GST per month. Telecom's normal PSTN pricing is ~$45 per month with no smart services and the wholesale rate is set off that so the price of a naked circuit with VoIP and smartphone services will save you around $15 per month over a regular PSTN + internet connection. Obviously this will be slightly less if you are in Wellington, Kapiti or Christchurch where Telecom offer their PSTN products at a cheaper price to everybody else in New Zealand.

What is "low grade" about the VoIP product? The reality is that VoIP is not a product for a "gadget freak", it's now the standard for telephony. Telecom's PSTN is is the process of being replaced by a VoIP solution and every household in NZ will be using a VoIP connection for their phone service within the next 5-7 years. Telecom are no longer laying any new copper and if you are lucky to be building in new fibre fed subdivisions you will be receiving your phone service using WorldxChange's VoIP service as Telecom don't have a VoIP product for residential users.

I haven't had a PSTN phoneline at home for well over 2 years and am 100% VoIP. Hundreds of home users and business users use WorldxChaneg's VoIP product every day as their primary phone service and don't have any issues. If you are experiencing issues with your VoIP product then you obviously have some issues somewhere because the simple reality is that a properly configured VoIP connection using VFX is indistinguisable from a Telecom PSTN line for 99% of users.


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  Reply # 158395 20-Aug-2008 16:32
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GDM: I sleep at night and I don't pirate. I said in my email - 'normal' users. Which to me means those who aren't spending every waking hour on youtube, or downloading DVD copies, or game copies, or thousands of pirated MP3's.


lol... Totally agreed though I'm guilty of Youtube downloading.

I'd stay with POTS unless you have a crackly line though if you have a crackly line you won't have much DSL anyway.

VoIP usually gives you more services for the money but often paying for naked DSL then a VoIP line is not often cost-effective.

Does anyone know if the network performance degrades with this off-peak offering after midnight? even for the standard flood users? I had heard xnet had international bandwidth problems so have steered clear of them for the meantime.

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  Reply # 158397 20-Aug-2008 16:35
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Mmm
So if it's true that it's $28 for DSL service then they are making around $6 as their profit margin (not including download) on the River Plan.
Therefore if it's also true that it's 20 for the copper access it should be only $54 for nakedDSL (or plus the Flood upload +4 - $58 ?) (20 +28+6). Wouldnt that make it much more competitive.

I'm not trying to compare apples (powerbook is pretty good tho'), I'm looking at the best deal for me - not you.

VOIP - yes it could be a problem with my VOIP but I emailed about that too... Anyway, it's a WAG54gpv2 - which has a problem with QOS - or is it XNET that has the problem with the WAG54?? No- one from xnet has chimed in on that one apart from trying to upsell!
I have a friend who has the same unit (bought at the same time from the same supplier) and he doesn't have the same problem - it's the upload speed that kills it - he has flood.

His VOIP phone quality is not as good as my POTS phone quality, and my VOIP quality is crap if my computer is uploading to any great extent and average if it isn't. If you've used VOIP for so long, maybe you don't notice the difference? Cell phones aren't as good as POTS either, but it hasn't stopped them!

VOIP replace copper connections? To a degree, but that isn't because the quality is better! It's because it's cheaper.
We all know that the NZ broadband infrastructure is pretty poor, how will that affect VOIP?

The PSTN is designed to be very robust with a very high availability, VOIP isn't at the same level.

Anyway, I don't want to debate the merits of VOIP, essentially it boils down to cheap and feature rich vs reliable and high Q. (VOIP in perfect circumstances is good Q but in NZ's pretty crappy broadband environment VOIP connections tend to be a bit flakey - obviously improving as time goes by)

My VOIP is, however, on the crappy side.

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  Reply # 158400 20-Aug-2008 16:52
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VoIP end to end over a controlled environment can be very high quality, esp with HD voice, will whip PSTN butt any day. But, due to the much varied broadband environment, differing phone handsets etc, it can be problematic. This should not really be blamed on VoIP though. That would be kind of like taking back your brand new Porsche and say it is the worst car you've ever driven; only because you've been driving it over bumpy farm paddocks instead of the Auto-Barn.
Generally, most issue with VoIP can be resolved and as mentioned it is normally the connection / hardware etc, rather than VoIP itself.
For some people moving to VoIP will save them money, others it won't, but that is not the only reason for switching. VoIP has many advance features too. But for those who just want basic no frills Internet + basic no frills phone, then for them there is no real advantage.




Chorus has spent $1.4 billion on making their xDSL broadband network faster. If your still stuck on ADSL or VDSL, why not spend from $150 on a master filter install to make sure you are getting the most out of your connection?
I install - Naked DSL, DSL Master Splitters, VoIP, data cabling and general computer support for home and small business.
Rural Broadband RBI installer for Ultimate Broadband and Full Flavour

 

Need help in Auckland, Waikato or BoP? Click my email button, or email me direct: [my user name] at geekzonemail dot com


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  Reply # 158404 20-Aug-2008 17:01
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GDM: Therefore if it's also true that it's 20 for the copper access it should be only $54 for nakedDSL (or plus the Flood upload +4 - $58 ?) (20 +28+6). Wouldnt that make it much more competitive.


The price for a naked bitstream DSL line varies from $47.28 to $67.23 for a urban user and $64.07 to $84.62 for a rural user all excl GST. Since most ISP's are going for a higher CIR they are all midrange in this pricing. That is not a large profit margin for an ISP to operate on.

I have to say I do completely disagree with all of your comment about VoIP but that's just my personal opinion. Voice over copper is history. End of story.



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  Reply # 158405 20-Aug-2008 17:02
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Don't agree with your analogy! If VOIP is 'not so good because of end to end issues, handset issues, broadband issues etc".
You conditions for really good VOIP are pretty hard to come by! Especially after an earthquake for example, or if you live more than 5km from an adsl exchange!
Anyway as I said. My voip service is crap, and Telecom charge less for basic phone and ADSl service than XNET. (my phone is 37 not 45!)

Actually what I'm hoping is that XNET management will have a good think about their pricing and maybe look at the opportunity to really undercut Telecom, Telstra etc by offering Naked DSL at an even lower rate with lower data usage.

Still, the big weakness of VOIP (power supply) worries me a lot. Not sure if I'd take the plunge and drop POTS entirely for that reason alone.

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  Reply # 158409 20-Aug-2008 17:07
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GDM: Don't agree with your analogy! If VOIP is 'not so good because of end to end issues, handset issues, broadband issues etc".
You conditions for really good VOIP are pretty hard to come by! Especially after an earthquake for example, or if you live more than 5km from an adsl exchange!
Anyway as I said. My voip service is crap, and Telecom charge less for basic phone and ADSl service than XNET. (my phone is 37 not 45!)

Actually what I'm hoping is that XNET management will have a good think about their pricing and maybe look at the opportunity to really undercut Telecom, Telstra etc by offering Naked DSL at an even lower rate with lower data usage.

Still, the big weakness of VOIP (power supply) worries me a lot. Not sure if I'd take the plunge and drop POTS entirely for that reason alone.


Save yourself the aggravation and go back to Telecom.

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  Reply # 158410 20-Aug-2008 17:08
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GDM: I'm not trying to compare apples (powerbook is pretty good tho'), I'm looking at the best deal for me - not you.


If you aren't comparing apples with apples, then who do you do a valid comparison between different providers??

GDM: VOIP - yes it could be a problem with my VOIP but I emailed about that too... Anyway, it's a WAG54gpv2 - which has a problem with QOS - or is it XNET that has the problem with the WAG54?? No- one from xnet has chimed in on that one apart from trying to upsell!
I have a friend who has the same unit (bought at the same time from the same supplier) and he doesn't have the same problem - it's the upload speed that kills it - he has flood.


Could be a variety of different issues, even though you bought units at the same time, your friend's could be from a different batch etc.  Have you spoken to Xnet's helpdesk about your issues.

Xnet won't chime in here as this is not an official support channel - see their website for their help options.

GDM: His VOIP phone quality is not as good as my POTS phone quality, and my VOIP quality is crap if my computer is uploading to any great extent and average if it isn't. If you've used VOIP for so long, maybe you don't notice the difference? Cell phones aren't as good as POTS either, but it hasn't stopped them!


Done properly, VoIP quality can be greater than POTS.  I use POTS at home, but pure VoIP at work, and VoIP quality at work is much better.

GDM: The PSTN is designed to be very robust with a very high availability, VOIP isn't at the same level.


Again, with the proper equipment and network design, VoIP can be just as reliable as POTS.  I have a mission critical, life saving company running pure VoIP with no issues.  It all comes down to proper implementation and reliable hardware.

GDM: Anyway, I don't want to debate the merits of VOIP, essentially it boils down to cheap and feature rich vs reliable and high Q. (VOIP in perfect circumstances is good Q but in NZ's pretty crappy broadband environment VOIP connections tend to be a bit flakey - obviously improving as time goes by).


The vast majority of my clients run VoIP over broadband without issues.

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  Reply # 158416 20-Aug-2008 17:17
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GDM:
Actually what I'm hoping is that XNET management will have a good think about their pricing and maybe look at the opportunity to really undercut Telecom, Telstra etc by offering Naked DSL at an even lower rate with lower data usage.


You are completely failing to understand the pricing that has been explained. XNet can't undercut Telecom on a Naked DSL connection. The wholesale prices are set by the commerce commission and the reality is if you're a Telecom customer in Wellington, Christchurch or Kapiti where Telecom's PSTN pricing is cheaper then a Telecom landline and bundle this with a cheap ADSL plan then it will work out cheaper than a Naked ADSL offering which has a higher CIR. XNet aren't into installing DSLAM's into Telecom cabinets, they are in a partnership with Telecom and are committed to reselling wholesale services.

If you don't like Xnet then you are free to move to any other ISP you like.


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