HFC drop outs

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#296346 9-Jun-2022 23:23

I've been dealing with drop outs for the past 4-5 months(3-4 times a day, I think the record was 6 times in a day/night) previous to this the connection was pretty solid may be a drop out once or twice a month, have logged 4 jobs over this time(each one dragged on for about 2 weeks) but still not resolved. A lot of time they go back to the idea of it's my kit, so this time I've suggested they send me a router to test. Waiting on this to be sent out.

But....

A downer Tech has been out twice, ran tests and has said there are upstream issues because once it goes down it takes about 15-20 minutes to come back up unless I restart the cable modem then it'll connect within a minute or so. I have never had to restart any of my own kit to get things going again, a restart of the cable modem will always get the connection back, if it takes a while more than a couple of minutes to come up, I power cycle it again and it comes up instantly. The Cable modem has been replaced once with a brand new one and have the same issues. My coax is a complete run without any joins and the tech has confirmed it's solid within my home.

Yesterday I tried just removing just the coax from the modem and plugging it back in, this brings back the connection almost instantly.........within 5-10 seconds rather than a complete power cycle of it. Anyone out there familiar with how these docsis modems work? I can't seem to look at the logs on the modem as Voda must change the default user/pass which is a pain because the techs never seem to check the logs on these, I believe the clue to all issues would be here.

I've got a Unifi USG connected to the cable modem and when the connection goes down, if I pull the logs from my USG it just shows "interface: eth0 has been disconnected". I do not have DPI turned on, totally aware that the USG3 is too poop for that.

Regardless HFC seems very foreign to the Vodafone support teams international or NZ, they draw a blank when I am on a HFC or cable.

If anyone has encountered similar issues with HFC and how you resolved them I would love to hear.

Please no "why don't you just go to fibre" replies, talking to people in our street it sounds just as bad if not worse.

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#2924537 10-Jun-2022 07:16

Hi, DOCSIS 3.x can be a delicate beast, to achieve its higher throughput it demands high standards of the plant especially wrt to interference. Which is why many telcos around the world have decided not to deploy it.

As for "why dont your just go for fibre" I will ask that, why would you remain with a orphan tech that only gives you access to one ISP. Fibre on the other hand is in a totally different plane, with no interference issues, simple modulation schemes so low complexity electronics and algorthms, few mechanicial joints, instead fusion spliced ones, or where mechanical ones do exist the simplicty of fibre means they are moisture and vibration tolerant so dont degrade with time.

And finally "talking to people in our street it sounds just as bad if not worse" well I call that total B4llSh1t, unless of course all your neighbours as Telco or network engineers. Most would not recognise the difference between a network outage and just the fact that they are connecting to some old socks server in some blokes basement connected by old bits of damp copper.

Cyril

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#2924543 10-Jun-2022 08:06

If you're having all this grief with cable (quite disturbing their phone support knows nothing about the service at all) then yes, do look at cable. You won't be able to access anything inside the cable modem - those settings are indeed locked down, with good reason. Also - a whole street having poor services? Come on. I think you'll find its their home setups that are causing any issues.

You can still keep your cable and get fibre installed for free at the same time. Cable is indeed an "orphan technology" as cyril says, fibre future-proofs you - and you can just get the install done and test both connections out and see how you go.

Lorenceo

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#2924628 10-Jun-2022 10:56

Over the past ~2 years I've probably lost internet connectivity at home due to power cuts more frequently than my actual internet connection has gone down. In my experience fibre is very reliable.

This might not be what you want to hear, but if I were in your shoes I'd be running from HFC as fast as I could.

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#2924657 10-Jun-2022 12:18

I meant to say "do look at fibre" - not "do look at cable"! Sorry for the typo. And as I say, you can get fibre installed and still keep your cable running while trying both out.

cyril7

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#2924660 10-Jun-2022 12:21

And further to the HFC to fibre comparison, the following note was provided by Vodafone to the ComCom, and paints a poor picture for HFC as delivered by VodaNZ

https://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=40&topicid=284537&page_no=2#2701889

Cyril

Lias

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#2924681 10-Jun-2022 12:48

Distorter:

Please no "why don't you just go to fibre" replies, talking to people in our street it sounds just as bad if not worse.

Sorry, but those people are wrong. FTTH in general is a better technology and NZ's UFB network is hands down better than Vodafone's HFC network. I'd be willing to put money on your neighbours who are complaining, doing so because their WiFi quality is crap and they don't understand that WiFi != internet connection.

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MikeB4

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#2924720 10-Jun-2022 13:50

Lias:

Sorry, but those people are wrong. FTTH in general is a better technology and NZ's UFB network is hands down better than Vodafone's HFC network. I'd be willing to put money on your neighbours who are complaining, doing so because their WiFi quality is crap and they don't understand that WiFi != internet connection.

Yep and then there is the constant chorus of ditch HFC and get Fibre. For some that is not an option because of home type and for some HFC is the cheapest and only option due to budget. It irritates me a lot.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

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Master Geek
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#2924722 10-Jun-2022 13:52

Yeah definitely take that on board they most probably just have shitty wifi setups and consider that its their fibre connection.

One big factor is the cost its basically half the cost to use HFC, it's only $50 a month and as I said was pretty solid at the start of the year. 2nd all my kit is set up on the 2nd story and it's a prick to run cables between the 2.

3rd, Chorus said it would be a 3 month wait time for install.

Have had someone from Voda reach out over PM, so will get details for them to investigate further.

Lias

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#2924727 10-Jun-2022 14:03

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it's only $50 a month

Yep pricing is one thing that HFC does have in it's favour, but as you are discovering the quality of the service is.. variable...

quickymart

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#2924731 10-Jun-2022 14:06

There is some truth in the saying "you get what you pay for". My cousin tried to get a landline with Vodafone (over copper) a few years ago and waited 6 weeks for absolutely 0 to happen. I suggested going elsewhere; I think he joined up with someone else and his phone was connected within 20 minutes.

He agreed with me that although Vodafone was cheaper, he found out the truth in the above saying the hard way.

Fibre is generally about $20-$30 more a month, but I don't know if that would work with your budget or not.

NickR1

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#2924732 10-Jun-2022 14:06

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3rd, Chorus said it would be a 3 month wait time for install.

It doesn't hurt to get that ball rolling away in the background though.

(My own opinion etc)

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#2924733 10-Jun-2022 14:07

There were issues like this in Te Awakairangi a few years back I it was said to be a faulty Node. It took some time to get it resolved as I believe it can be a pain to trace. If you have a fault ticket you should check to see if it still open and get it escalated.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

Lias

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#2924739 10-Jun-2022 14:16

quickymart:

He agreed with me that although Vodafone was cheaper, he found out the truth in the above saying the hard way.

Possibly a bit harsh on Vodafone, I genuinely think they've done the best they can with the HFC network, it's just that HFC is inherently worse than FTTH for a bunch of reasons including physics. I've been on Vodafone's UFB network for several years now and aside from the well know issues with their billing/customer service, the actual network has been rock solid.

antoniosk

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#2924777 10-Jun-2022 15:23

Most people know I'm on HFC, and on the whole it's tended to be very good, especially as the network empties and people move to fibre.

I received a general email comms from Vodafone earlier in the week, and this paragraph stood out to me:

"Doing it tough
Finally, I received many humbling emails sharing stories about kiwis doing it tough right now. I know that many are feeling the pinch on cost of living whether it's at the pump or the supermarket and our team have been looking at how we can help ease this pressure.

Broadband is now an essential service whether it's for working, learning or keeping the family entertained. We don't control all the costs for these services and have been advised by some local fibre companies of an increase in costs for retail providers like Vodafone to access fibre. Companies like Chorus, Enable, UFF and North Power will all be charging more for fibre and copper services in 2022.

We do control the costs for services that are provided using Vodafone's own network, such as our Wireless Broadband service, or the HFC Broadband service (available in parts of Wellington, Kapiti and Christchurch). I'm pleased to commit to you that Vodafone will not be increasing the prices on Wireless Broadband or HFC for at least the next 12 months.

In addition, we continue to offer the lowest Pay Monthly Endless plan in market and we're looking at ways to make it cheaper and easier to connect with us. More to come on that later in the year."

I have added the bold+italic+underline for effect. It was written into the fibre agreements the absolute right for the annual wholesale cost to be increased, and regular as clockwork those costs go up every year. Fibre is a regulated thing, so the ability of the companies to make real money is capped - meaning they absolutely will raise prices when they can.

I also interpret this as code for 'your fibre connection is going to get more expensive, because our costs are going up'. I've no idea what the monthly cost has got to; it feels like $59/month for a wholesale connection, which is brutal.

For the original poster though, it is unacceptable for Voda Support to be stupid and unable to help. HFC may be cheap and no longer spoon-feed easy to support when sat behind a computer screen, but you are still being charged for a service that is clearly failing. and for that, as most people have found that come to Geekzone, they cc in Jason P into a comment and he normally gets stuff in action. HFC can be as cheap as $53/month, compared to most fibre gig connections being around $90.

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Antoniosk

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#2924783 10-Jun-2022 15:32

MikeB4:

There were issues like this in Te Awakairangi a few years back I it was said to be a faulty Node. It took some time to get it resolved as I believe it can be a pain to trace. If you have a fault ticket you should check to see if it still open and get it escalated.

This is what I am assuming is the issue.

Also a colleague snooping at my screen while on Geekzone suggested Voda may have pushed a bad fw onto the modem and to see if I could get it rolled back.

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