Civil Defence mobile alerts

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Networkn
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#1877776 5-Oct-2017 11:28

PaulBags: So then be intrusive, not debilitating.

How do you compare it to the smoke alarms in your home? Are those debilitating. You aren't going to be damaged for life from the sound, I am quite sure, it's a short term very occasional thing, designed to wake the most heavily sleeping person, get attention. As far as I am concerned short of bursting air drums, it's not going to be too loud.

PaulBags

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#1877777 5-Oct-2017 11:30

Let's get rid of bike lanes, hand rails, ramps, medical exemptions to bike helmet & seat belt laws - because hey there's no point in catering to anyone who isn't "normal".

Coil

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#1877778 5-Oct-2017 11:31

networkn:

PaulBags: Yip, fusk inclusiveness, fusk saving all the lives, just bang out a system aimed at the lowest common denominator.

Boy, you really are in a state. By definition catering to the lowest common denominator IS saving the most lives. At the risk of sounding condescending, can I suggest you take a few minutes away from the keyboard to calm down and collect your thoughts. I am pretty sure if you re-read your posts a week fron now, you aren't going to be super happy.

I'm no forum moderator but I'd have to conclude that this has run its course.
Agree to disagree.

Heck, I turned off my notifications but when its in production I will turn them back on as I don't appreciate being a test subject at 1-2AM.

Enjoy.

networkn

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#1877780 5-Oct-2017 11:33

PaulBags: Let's get rid of bike lanes, hand rails, ramps, medical exemptions to bike helmet & seat belt laws - because hey there's no point in catering to anyone who isn't "normal".

As I said, carrying on this way does nothing for your argument. You are obviously beyond reason now, and for that reason, I am also now out.

dfnt

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#1877782 5-Oct-2017 11:34

Agreed, PaulBags is clearly so aggrieved that arguing the point is an exercise in futility

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frankv

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#1877784 5-Oct-2017 11:38

networkn:

PaulBags: "some people just seem to want to get upset over every little thing." - yeah when you only look at things from your own perspective and ignore what others say then it must seem that way.

The points raised by frankv had very well reasoned explanations as was explained by the reply he got from Saltynz. He probably could have come to them himself had he of given it more thought.

I didn't ignore what frankv said, I just disagreed with his perspective.

I don't think you, or @Saltynz, quite understand my perspective.

I'm only a little annoyed about people getting woken up (I wasn't :) ) and that the software was made overseas.

The bigger picture is what I'm concerned about: that NZ's IT (and other) infrastructure has been allowed to run down. NZ should have been positioned so that it *could* produce software like this (except without waking people up in the middle of the night needlessly), for our own use and to sell it to others.

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kickintheeye

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#1877785 5-Oct-2017 11:38

That's why I turn the airplane mode on when I go to bed.

frankv

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#1877787 5-Oct-2017 11:42

PaulBags: Yip, fusk inclusiveness, fusk saving all the lives, just bang out a system aimed at the lowest common denominator.

It wouldn't be so bad if it *was* aimed at the LCD. However, it's aimed at the highest; only people with the latest smartphones will get any benefit.

Coil

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#1877791 5-Oct-2017 11:44

frankv:

PaulBags: Yip, fusk inclusiveness, fusk saving all the lives, just bang out a system aimed at the lowest common denominator.

It wouldn't be so bad if it *was* aimed at the LCD. However, it's aimed at the highest; only people with the latest smartphones will get any benefit.

Its not aimed at anyone, They are enabling a technology that is only available on certain phones but is very useful and part of covering as much of the population as they can. I have a smart phone and you don't see me listening to the radio often but grandparents who use dumb phones are always listening to the radio and keep portable ones too.
Chances are they would find out in the same time as I would and If we didn't have both the technologies one of us wouldn't know. Look at the bigger picture.

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#1877804 5-Oct-2017 11:45

kickintheeye:

That's why I turn the airplane mode on when I go to bed.

Does airplane mode actually turn the CD alerts off? Airplane mode just means your phone won't transmit. Conceivably, these messages could be broadcast, and a phone could receive them without needing to send acknowledgements.

networkn

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#1877805 5-Oct-2017 11:45

frankv:

networkn:

PaulBags: "some people just seem to want to get upset over every little thing." - yeah when you only look at things from your own perspective and ignore what others say then it must seem that way.

The points raised by frankv had very well reasoned explanations as was explained by the reply he got from Saltynz. He probably could have come to them himself had he of given it more thought.

I didn't ignore what frankv said, I just disagreed with his perspective.

I don't think you, or @Saltynz, quite understand my perspective.

I'm only a little annoyed about people getting woken up (I wasn't :) ) and that the software was made overseas.

The bigger picture is what I'm concerned about: that NZ's IT (and other) infrastructure has been allowed to run down. NZ should have been positioned so that it *could* produce software like this (except without waking people up in the middle of the night needlessly), for our own use and to sell it to others.

I agree, if that was your point, I didn't get it.

I don't think it's a matter of infrastructure being run down. I think it's a matter of the NZ Companies that may have tendered for it, not being as competitive, or their proposal not being convincing as the alternative that was picked.

There is no guarantee whatsoever that a Kiwi couldn't have made the same mistake and sent the alerts in the middle of the night. It happens. Time to get over it. In the grand scheme of what's happened in the world this week, it's unfathomable this thread is 11 pages long.

I don't think gnashing of teeth is warranted unless you want to go and check that the tender process was thorough enough or find out why the Kiwi companies didn't get the contract. I know a few companies who could probably have done something like this.

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DS248

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#1877810 5-Oct-2017 11:52

One main issue is that if there was a straightforward way to turn the warnings off (as currently possible in iOS11) then inevitably thousands would have the system turned off unintentionally/accidentally/.., with their lives unintentionally put at risk.

As clear from previous posts, if someone is really not able to cope with emergency warnings perhaps once in years-decades then there are a number of options available to circumvent them. Hopefully they will not expect others to come running after them in a real emergency though.

"Though, if I had some control over it, I'd pick a less horrifying sound ... I also wouldn't need to turn on flight mode, so I could still get messages from people if there was _actually_ something I needed to worry about, or if there was a personal emergency among those I care about."

"horrifying sound". Yes it was piecing and was meant to be. I received all three messages and was woken by the first so am well aware what the sound was like (phone ~300 mm from pillow). So 15-20 minutes lost sleep. The point is it did wake me. A less intrusive sound may well not have as I have 100+ db hearing loss above ~2000 Hz (below 2000 is OK). I cannot hear any sound from many alarms (fridge door, microwave, car backing, ...), even if standing right beside the source. Modern hearing aids mostly fix that (frequency shift) but are not worn while sleeping. So I am grateful they have not gone down the solely high frequency alarm track. OK, a specific though not that uncommon situation, especially for older people. But there will be many with normal hearing who for whatever reason will be deeply asleep and will also need a piecing sound to be woken.

"... get messages from people ...". In a genuine, immediate emergency? A personal message just for you? Or if you are thinking just from personal friends, how will they know of an impending emergency about to hit you in the middle of the night. Presumably they like you will have emergency messages turned off (or are not in the risk zone).

"was _actually_ something I needed to worry about". That is exactly when it is intended to be used. There will likely be initial teething issues. Unlikely a repeat of the 1:30 am test signal incident but quite likely earthquake/tsunami or other alerts where the event does not pan out as bad as feared. It is early days and the reliability of the system will improve over time. In 1960, the first I knew of the Chilean tsunami was when I got up in the morning and discovered water had washed up to the front step of our house overnight. A few others in the area where we lived had water in their houses. In Japan, over a hundred people died because they were not aware the tsunami was about to hit them during the night. And as mentioned before, this type of system can give 1 minute plus warning of impending strong shaking from a large earthquake.

MurrayM

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#1877813 5-Oct-2017 11:58

networkn:

I don't think it's a matter of infrastructure being run down. I think it's a matter of the NZ Companies that may have tendered for it, not being as competitive, or their proposal not being convincing as the alternative that was picked.

There is no guarantee whatsoever that a Kiwi couldn't have made the same mistake and sent the alerts in the middle of the night. It happens. Time to get over it. In the grand scheme of what's happened in the world this week, it's unfathomable this thread is 11 pages long.

I don't think gnashing of teeth is warranted unless you want to go and check that the tender process was thorough enough or find out why the Kiwi companies didn't get the contract. I know a few companies who could probably have done something like this.

In addition to the above points, it might have been that the foreign company had previous experience building such emergency systems whereas there might not have been this experience in NZ. In this situation it might have seemed better to go with a company that had the epxerience rather than one without?

michaelmurfy

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#1877819 5-Oct-2017 12:07

PaulBags: Let's get rid of bike lanes, hand rails, ramps, medical exemptions to bike helmet & seat belt laws - because hey there's no point in catering to anyone who isn't "normal".

@PaulBags this is way off topic. We get it, you're upset, you don't need to keep telling us and nothing is going to change.

I'm locking this thread as I think it has run its course.

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freitasm

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#1905162 21-Nov-2017 11:43

Just saw this:

"A nationwide test of the Emergency Mobile Alert system is happening on Sunday 26 November (between 6pm and 7pm). If your life, health or property is in serious danger, an Emergency Mobile Alert could be sent to your mobile phone."

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