VoIP solution options

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#89987 7-Oct-2007 19:17

exac

Arrrg does anyone else hate the smiley faces and delay when composing a reply, you start typing thinking ready to go, then bang it posts!

camo786

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#89989 7-Oct-2007 19:26

Exactly

Epygi 2x can do VOIP lines and 1 analogue line, the analogue line is covered as I have one that Telecom use to deliver ADSL, and I certainly dont want to pay for another!

My point is what do I buy from worldxchange (or competitor) and how much?

No one seems to market voip lines or is it (sip trunks), everyone wants you to use SPA3102 or similar

Hmmm how could I connect Skype to Asterisk or Epygi???

sbiddle

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#89991 7-Oct-2007 19:38

camo786:Hmmm how could I connect Skype to Asterisk or Epygi???

They are different protocols so you'd need to run some software to interface between them.

Why would you want to connect Skype to an Asterisk box or Epygi unit? Skype is history. Kaput. Over.

mushion22

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#89992 7-Oct-2007 19:45

Hmm not sure if you can use it with Skype. The Quadro2x uses SIP, so I assume all you would need is the SIP gateway details and your userid, station id, and password and possibly the codec options etc for World Exchange (or others). These would probably be the same settings as you use in your Linksys gateway.

Then you need to either set up your linksys to point to your own SIP gateway (the Quadro box) or buy some IP phones or ATAs and set them up, in the same way that you would for WorldExchange except using the details of your local gateway.

So essentially, buy nothing form WxC except an account. Buy a Quadro2x or similar from whoever sells them. Then you load your WxC account details and the WxC gateway details into the Quadro, provision some extensions in the Quadro, then you load the Quadro's details and the extension "account" details into the Linksys you have, or you could buy some new ATAs or IP phones, or use Softphones (eg X-lite). I guess there might be some setup in the Quadro for calling rules - eg when to use the VoIP line and when to use the local line. You'd need to ask someone like 3bit or one of the other suppliers for guidance on that sort of thing.

The Epygi website with some more details is here: http://www.epygi.com/quadro-ip-pbx/69/

camo786

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#89997 7-Oct-2007 20:44

Yup, I get all that,

You dont get any account details from WXC, only a link that you past into the config page of the SPA3102

Like I said the 3bit guys were vague (possibly WxC dont give out that info), on how to make it work,

Maybe they pitch to devices to replace tradtional PBX only?

Does anyone sell SIP trunks that can used with Epygi of Asterisk? From google search I can find anyone with sensible web site with simple explanation and pricing

Maybe someone at wxc will notice this thread

sbiddle

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#89998 7-Oct-2007 20:50

camo786: Yup, I get all that,

You dont get any account details from WXC, only a link that you past into the config page of the SPA3102

Like I said the 3bit guys were vague (possibly WxC dont give out that info), on how to make it work,

Maybe they pitch to devices to replace tradtional PBX only?

Does anyone sell SIP trunks that can used with Epygi of Asterisk? From google search I can find anyone with sensible web site with simple explanation and pricing

Maybe someone at wxc will notice this thread

The Epygi unit and Asterisk can be used with 99% of VoIP providers out there. The Eyygi units have been certified for use on the VFX network since earlier on in the year and Asterisk support is being tested at present (I have my Asterisk box here running off iTalk, VFX and Faktortel) so you should see an announcent in regards to that in the near future. Pricing for the Epygi trunks is also different to the residential VFX service since there are various options available depending on how many DDI's and trunks you require.

To configure an Epygi unit with the WxC VFX service you will need to contact WxC - these are not the same settings as the SPA3102.

What exactly are you trying to set up?

mushion22

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#90003 7-Oct-2007 21:36

Had a quick google search. From what I can see WxC lock down their service to only work with supported devices (or at least they used to.) They do it mainly for quality assurance reasons - they want to make sure the devices used on their network will work properly which is fair enough so long as they provide a decent range of devices. I don't know if thats a good thing in the long run though, do we want to end up with the same situation as Telecom & Vodafone where you have to buy a new handset to change networks? Seems a bit silly when the handsets are generally all the same, and its just configuration that matters - perhaps WxC should be more open, perhaps with some sort of disclaimer for the use of non-supported equipment.

Perhaps you could give them a call and ask if a Quadro is supported, or if they have a similar solution. Otherwise Slingshot iTalk is pretty open and can be setup with pretty much any SIP compliant device (so long as you don't complain if it is incompatible for some reason!). I'm sure some of the other NZ and international VoIP providers could be used as well (I've only used iTalk myself, and I know it works with non-slingshot gear).

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mushion22

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#90004 7-Oct-2007 21:41

Well there you go, looks like the unit would work - I imagine it wouldn't be an "off the shelf" type thing though. You would probably need to get someone (like 3bit) to create a solution for you rather than doing it yourself. Otherwise you could go with another VoIP provider and DIY if you are confident you can do it and are happy to go it alone with no support.

freitasm

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#90005 7-Oct-2007 21:44

You don't need to go too far to find out about the VFX locking - just check the VFX Forums here on Geekzone. WorldxChange participates in the forums very actiely. In a couple of threads they explained at lenght why not alow people to configure their own devices.

In summary there are many ways people can "tweak" their devices and break things. Then a call that one believes was terminated but the system doesn't recognise as such comes billed and lots of complains follow.

They don't use a selection of devices to make money. They do it to preserve the integrity of their network and provide support. Think of it as a "telepermit", which is fair enough. It's how telcos operate, and frankly the only way they can deliver on a promise.

Why you have to call then to check if the Quadro is supported? We've done a review with a Quadro connected to VFX, and the Epygi units are listed in the VFX hardware page.

It looks like there are some opinions flying around here in this thread without as much as a visit to their website to check things.

As sbiddle says WorldxChange is just running an Asterisk trial. So things are not as "closed" as many want people to think.

nate

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#90009 7-Oct-2007 22:19

Hi guys

Nathan from 3Bit here, interested read through these posts, I'm going to try and answer as many of your questions in this one post, if I miss anything please PM me.

camo786:
I would like to use something like 3bit's Epygi devices (or Asterisk), but no mention of how to get voip for this, or how much it costs, the chaps at 3bit said I would NOT be able to use the same account, that I have configured with my SPA3102, and were vauge on what to ask for

Camo, you may have talked to one of my technical team, I apologise that they weren't as clear as they could've been, please PM me and I'll give you the full run down on what you need, and what costs you'd be looking at.

antoniosk:
mushion22: I'm in wellington, I work in the IT dept of a company that is in commercial premises, why's that?

Lots of folk are in parts of the country that can only get copper services such as Frame Relay or Primary Rate lines. Access to fibre etc can still be hit/miss, or pricey.

Are your questions out of general interest, or are you looking.....?

That's the beauty of the Epygi systems - whether you have standard phone lines, or basic rate/primary rate ISDN (primary rate soon to be tele-permitted), they can support either. Also, don't let anyone tell you that you can't run VoIP over ADSL (a large communications company in Auckland has been spreading this lie) - we have plenty of clients who use VoIP + ADSL together.

mushion22: [SNIP] Then you need to either set up your linksys to point to your own SIP gateway (the Quadro box) or buy some IP phones or ATAs and set them up, in the same way that you would for WorldExchange except using the details of your local gateway. [SNIP]

I don't think you can plug your Skype account into the Quadro. As for setup, you'll need to contact us to setup the Quadro on DVX. I'm sure maverick can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think WxC is reluctant to give the end user the settings as you could copy them over and use them on an unsupported device, hence why they use us dealers.

mushion22: Had a quick google search. From what I can see WxC lock down their service to only work with supported devices (or at least they used to.) They do it mainly for quality assurance reasons - they want to make sure the devices used on their network will work properly which is fair enough so long as they provide a decent range of devices. I don't know if thats a good thing in the long run though, do we want to end up with the same situation as Telecom & Vodafone where you have to buy a new handset to change networks? Seems a bit silly when the handsets are generally all the same, and its just configuration that matters - perhaps WxC should be more open, perhaps with some sort of disclaimer for the use of non-supported equipment.

Perhaps you could give them a call and ask if a Quadro is supported, or if they have a similar solution. Otherwise Slingshot iTalk is pretty open and can be setup with pretty much any SIP compliant device (so long as you don't complain if it is incompatible for some reason!). I'm sure some of the other NZ and international VoIP providers could be used as well (I've only used iTalk myself, and I know it works with non-slingshot gear).

The Telecom/Vodafone comparison is unfair to WxC - you need to appreciate that there is such a wide variety of equipment, plus the real danger of cowboys ruining the VFX/DVX service through incorrect protocols, incorrect setup, settings etc etc that WxC want to be 100% sure a new device is not going to cause havoc.

I know maverick and his team are very protective of the integrity of their network, hence they reluctant to support every man and his dog.

The Quadro is a certified device on DVX. I also know it doesn't work completely with iTalk (from my understanding iTalk doesn't respond to the SIP standard REDIRECT command, so call transfers don't work).

To finish off, I acknowledge other companies can provide Quadro hardware but keep these points in mind:

Who worked to get the Quadro provisioned with WxC and continues to work with WxC with new Epygi equipment?
Who provided Geekzone with the Quadro 2X for review?
Who has met in person with Mario Cuello, the CEO of Epygi, and has direct contact with him and regular sends issues and suggestions to Epygi's technical team?
Because of the above, who asked Epygi for a service pack for the new NZ daylight savings time, had it sent to them especially, and then provided this to WxC for other dealers?

Regards
Nathan Dunn
Director, 3Bit Solutions.

mushion22

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#90011 7-Oct-2007 22:30

I'm guessing the answer to all those would be you! :)

Would be nice if there was a better way in the future to protect the networks - maybe some kind of simcard-like thing where the provider's setups are locked into a card which can be used in any handset. My head's a bit in the clouds there though :P

Thanks for a good thorough response!

skyplonk

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#90015 7-Oct-2007 22:41

Yes, if you so want you can use Skype with the Epygi Quadro system. We have written a bridge that will bridge a Skype connection with a Quadro. Works like a treat.

Nathan, you do not have to blow your own trumpet here.

We have met with the CEO of Epygi, and not just at CeBIT. Also, yes we deal directly with Epygi on a number of issues, we do not all deal with Alloy all the time for Tech support, but the fact they are only a few hours behind us makes things convenient . That said, it is not hard to deal with Epygi, open a ticket or two and you quickly develop a relationship with the Product Managers and Tech Support staff in different parts of the world.

A ticket was already logged with Epygi for a NZDT patch from Alloy.

Like you Nathan we have many happy customers using many different implementations of Quadro hardware in their everyday lives. And I must give you credit that you have done a great job working with WorldxChange and the certification of the Quadro hardware.

I look forward to the developments of VoIP in New Zealand, and I am sure that WorldxChange and Epygi will be some of the driving forces behind the trend change. Also new systems by Cisco and 3Com (if they ever pay any real attention to NZ) will be a huge catalyst VoIP for main stream business.

hads

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#90161 8-Oct-2007 19:45

Indeed, there are a number or companies selling Epygi units. You have the choice :)

nicegear.co.nz - VoIP, DVB and other Linux compatible hardware

Fraktul

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#90171 8-Oct-2007 20:33

nate:

Also, don't let anyone tell you that you can't run VoIP over ADSL (a large communications company in Auckland has been spreading this lie) - we have plenty of clients who use VoIP + ADSL together.

While you may be able to run VoIP services over TCNZs UBS network the SLAs of this product definitely do not support VoIP type service flows. Suggesting people run their business primary voice services over UBS without due diligence and without the end user being fully aware of exactly what they are getting is a tad irresponsible Nathan.

nate

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#90174 8-Oct-2007 20:48

Fraktul: While you may be able to run VoIP services over TCNZs UBS network the SLAs of this product definitely do not support VoIP type service flows. Suggesting people run their business primary voice services over UBS without due diligence and without the end user being fully aware of exactly what they are getting is a tad irresponsible Nathan.

I agree with you completely - my point was more that you can run crystal clear VoIP over ADSL.

To clarify further, to keep all bases covered I recommended keeping a couple incoming phone lines/ISDN lines and run outgoing calls through VoIP - this way, in the event of an ADSL outage, customers can still call in, and you can still call out through the physical phone lines until the internet is back up again.

It's really up to the customer as to the balance of lower line charges with VoIP vs keeping backup physical phone lines.

Sorry if my comments were misleading, I'm certainly not trying to lead anyone astray :)

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