VOIP - Not cheaper

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networkn

Networkn
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#229219 13-Feb-2018 14:33

Hi.

I have been considering a switch to VOIP, given my chosen provider wants to try and force me off copper.

When I got their proposal I nearly choked as it is as expensive, if not more so, than the equivalent analog option.

I guess it's not helped by the fact they insist on a fibre connection provided by them dedicated to their purpose.

I started to have a look around. Call rates don't seem much cheaper if at all, and the basic costs don't seem much cheaper, so is it just that the margin is being swallowed up and telcos are making more money?

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gordy7
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#1956371 13-Feb-2018 14:42

Figures?

I am happy with 2Talk ($10.50/mth), SPA2102 ATA (Outlay ~$100), Skinny VDSL ($68/mth).

Hope to move it to Skinny UFB when it arrives.

Gordy

My first ever AM radio network connection was with a 1MHz AM crystal(OA91) radio receiver.

networkn

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#1956374 13-Feb-2018 14:46

Sorry I should state, for business.

Most plans I have seen have tiny allowances for Mobile (100m a month) calling vs unlimited I get on analog.

I have 4 lines unlimited NZ and AUS calling for normal numbers. Cost around $350 a month.

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#1956379 13-Feb-2018 14:53

I’d love to take a look at it.

We offer a lot of our client's unlimited packages for calling via VoIP.

The cost to most people is the hardware but there are ways around that.

speed

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#1956395 13-Feb-2018 15:35

networkn:

Most plans I have seen have tiny allowances for Mobile (100m a month) calling vs unlimited I get on analog.

I have 4 lines unlimited NZ and AUS calling for normal numbers. Cost around $350 a month.

An applicable 2talk comparative would be:

1 X Business Go, 10 concurrent calls & numbers, 12000/5000/100 mins (local/country/mobile); $80+gst

1 X MFlex 1000 plan, +1000 mobile mins; $70+gst

Total cost $150+gst.

That leaves about $200 for overage to spend on cell minutes above the 1100 included (ie another 1000+ mins).

IMO that's pretty competitive. Granted it's not unlimited, but it's 10 lines rather than 4 (10 business lines alone would cost $500/month from Spark). I'm sure other providers would do a custom deal on unlimited minutes (eg offer already made higher up in this thread).

PS - those 'country' mins (the 5000/mins/month figure) includes landlines throughout NZ, Aus, and many other countries too.

chevrolux

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#1956450 13-Feb-2018 16:51

Well I would happily provide you 4 calling channels with unlimited NZ & AU for $340/month. Actually, cos im a good guy, lets make the 8 channels and unlimited calling to NZ, AU plus UK & US landline. And $10 cheaper than POTS!

... in all seriousness though, chat with someone who is a 2talk wholesaler or "white label" user and they can come up with their own plans for you.

Also remember that a SIP service from the big boys (ie Spark GVC) is delivered very differently to 2talk SIP trunks. Is it any better? That's really up to the end user requirements. With the biggest thing being what down time might be acceptable if the broadband connection delivering the SIP service was down. Once again though, if you wanted a connection with a better SLA, a 2talk white label user could do that for you too.

I sort of disagree with people's attitudes to VoIP in that it MUST be cheaper. Sure there is the obvious saving of not paying for the pieces of copper to deliver the lines, but calls still need terminating, systems need maintaining, billing needs to be done etc.

And that's before the PBX system is looked at if it is SIP capable or not - just don't muck around wiring stupid ATA's in to your PBX, it's a cr4p solution when there are sooo many low cost, high quality, IP PBX options available (LG iPECS being my current favourite). If your system is old, look at how you could simply reallocate that $350/month in to a new PBX + SIP services.

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#1956486 13-Feb-2018 17:52

chevrolux:

Well I would happily provide you 4 calling channels with unlimited NZ & AU for $340/month. Actually, cos im a good guy, lets make the 8 channels and unlimited calling to NZ, AU plus UK & US landline. And $10 cheaper than POTS!

... in all seriousness though, chat with someone who is a 2talk wholesaler or "white label" user and they can come up with their own plans for you.

Also remember that a SIP service from the big boys (ie Spark GVC) is delivered very differently to 2talk SIP trunks. Is it any better? That's really up to the end user requirements. With the biggest thing being what down time might be acceptable if the broadband connection delivering the SIP service was down. Once again though, if you wanted a connection with a better SLA, a 2talk white label user could do that for you too.

I sort of disagree with people's attitudes to VoIP in that it MUST be cheaper. Sure there is the obvious saving of not paying for the pieces of copper to deliver the lines, but calls still need terminating, systems need maintaining, billing needs to be done etc.

And that's before the PBX system is looked at if it is SIP capable or not - just don't muck around wiring stupid ATA's in to your PBX, it's a cr4p solution when there are sooo many low cost, high quality, IP PBX options available (LG iPECS being my current favourite). If your system is old, look at how you could simply reallocate that $350/month in to a new PBX + SIP services.

Thanks. I think our requirements are simplicity. We need to transfer calls between extensions internally.

I have had a bad experience with (non existent) 2Talk Support, so I am reasonably relunctant to go down that path. I understand that using a reseller or white label might give better support however. Surely there are other comparable platforms in NZ though?

I'd imagine that given the two solutions I have seen are delivered over UFB, it's not like Spark/VF will guarantee up time either.

I have a OfficeServ 7030 that is meeting our needs right now, but to license SIP for it was going to be $1200ish which is incredibly steep in my book.

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chevrolux

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#1956492 13-Feb-2018 18:22

So we are white label 2talk users and I have used a other wholesale platforms from the other main players too. Can quite happily say my preference is 2talk by a long shot. The flexibility is awesome, but mainly (now that we are a bigger player for them) I really couldn't fault their support - vastly different to the support experience of being a retail customer. They also have a real willingness to work with their re-sellers too with special requests.

I've fallen out of love with Samsung OfficeServ, the short comings have built up over the last few years and now they just plain annoy me. IMO the 7030 shouldn't even be allowed to be SIP capable. You can license a bunch of SIP trunk channels, but they limited what they call "MGI" channels to only 4 - one channel gets used per TDM to VoIP connection. So think "SIP trunk > Voicemail AA (option 1, option 2, etc) > Extension" uses two MGI. MGI licensing is also what most of that $1200 will be too, just a bit silly.

Like I said above, flavour of the month for me is LG iPECS. Good pricing, fantastic feature set but it's their mobile app I like the most. It's just a "normal" softphone app but has a few extras built in like presence and instant messaging. Plus it works by VPN'ing back to your system so works very well on mobile networks.

Maybe if you want something hassle free Digital Island could be the go? Don't think you would see much change out of $350 though either there.

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#1956496 13-Feb-2018 18:32

I would have to say 2Talk is a very good option, the pricing as shown by Speed is keen. As for support, I used to support over 400lines as a white label provider, so going with a similar provider gets you support.

That all said, very little ever went wrong, its a pretty solid system.

Cyril

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#1956500 13-Feb-2018 18:46

From experience in my old job if you use 2Talk and you need support it may be slow coming. Their cost is attractive.

Regards,

Old3eyes

sparkz25

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#1956505 13-Feb-2018 18:57

2 talk is the way to go now days

johny99

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#1956535 13-Feb-2018 19:28

@networkn look at Compass’s cloud pbx offering!

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ArcticSilver

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#1956552 13-Feb-2018 19:38

In my experience 2Talk is cheap, but support is quite often not up to scratch, even at a wholesale level. I've seen multiple instances of urgent issues taking days to get a response because its a weekend/public holiday/they're finished for the day.

You can't tell a 24/7 business that they'll have to wait all weekend before some one can look at it.

I spent far too long trying to work through issues with them, in the end we gave up and found better wholesale arrangements.

chevrolux

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#1956561 13-Feb-2018 19:55

ArcticSilver:

In my experience 2Talk is cheap, but support is quite often not up to scratch, even at a wholesale level. I've seen multiple instances of urgent issues taking days to get a response because its a weekend/public holiday/they're finished for the day.

You can't tell a 24/7 business that they'll have to wait all weekend before some one can look at it.

I spent far too long trying to work through issues with them, in the end we gave up and found better wholesale arrangements.

As above, quite different for wholesalers. They have escalation procedures which work perfectly well as you would expect.

ArcticSilver

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#1956567 13-Feb-2018 20:01

chevrolux:

As above, quite different for wholesalers. They have escalation procedures which work perfectly well as you would expect.

My experiences were at a wholesale level.

Edit: It is possible that they have changes procedures recently, these were just my past experiences with them.

CamH

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#1956571 13-Feb-2018 20:05

We wholesale 2talk and the wholesale support is good when it's urgent. Outages and issues are probably about the same as you'd expect on a copper service.

Really, on cost, you're not likely to find anything else comparable.

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