8.1 update 1 return of the start menu

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#1022667 10-Apr-2014 10:17

gehenna:
TimA: I miss being able to open my computer or control panel easily

Pin them to your Taskbar.

Pinning is an annoying thing in windows 8 too.

In windows 7, you can right click on a start menu application and there is an option to send to the desktop.

Windows 8 makes this a 2 step process requiring you to open file location then send to desktop. Very clumsy but just one of the 1000 annoyances that makes windows 8.

I think windows 8 exists because they didn't have any other ideas and they have to change something to justify their jobs.

I'd have been quite happy to have windows 8 as windows 7 + windows 8 - metro + start.

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#1022668 10-Apr-2014 10:22

ArcticSilver: All and all, i'm sticking with Windows 7 for the foreseeable future.

Windows 8 brings improvements in speed and browser (if you use IE by default). Using Start8 will give you the Start menu functionality back.

I personally have uninstalled all modern UI apps from my laptop, installed Start8 and use it with the old Windows metaphor. On my tablet I am going the opposite by trying to use only modern UI apps - almost mission accomplished, except for a VPN client, VLC (the modern UI is buggy but will switch when it works) and Mail (the built-in mail does not automatically hiperlink URLs in text emails in certain cases such as Office 365 accounts, even though Windows Phone Mail does it happily).

I have taken my tablet some meetings and the split screen is a "cool gimmick" as in "my tablet does it, iPad doesn't" but it's a barrier to productivity. In a recent meeting I had OneNote open in one side, IE open on another side and needed to quickly switch to another app to check something. Not having windows on a desktop or items on a taskbar makes things tricky on a touch only device. If you have a keyboard you can always task switch with ALT-TAB. You can task switch with a swipe from left but having to keep selecting which side split the screen is a waste of time.

I will keep trying because people will keep saying "someone moved your cheese" or "you just need to get used to it"... Let's see how it goes - not completely convinced on UI/UX yet but like the speed.

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#1022671 10-Apr-2014 10:31

I am using Windows 8.1 update 1 on my Laptop, the new update has definitely made mouse and keyboard navigation a lot easier. I am using Modern Apps where possible and the Start screen which I think is great and a vast improvement on the mess the Win 7 start menu was.
Once my iMac passes into eternity it will be replaced with a Windows Desktop with Windows 8.1.

nathan

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#1022723 10-Apr-2014 11:51

ArcticSilver:
JimmyH:
nathan:

Some of our biggest Windows fans are diehard keyboard and mouse users, just like you and me. we listened to their feedback. So while we think touch is the future, for people using a PC without touch or folks who just prefer to mouse/keyboard we made Windows 8.1 Update easier

I think this is the sign of a company that is listening, that is reacting that wants to please people

I know you work for them and more or less have to defend them, but that really is pushing "spin" beyond the bounds of credibility.

They pushed it out knowing that it would be unpopular with a large portion of their user base (one of the key devs has admitted this), and then tried to ignore loud screaming from the userbase and tanking sales for almost a year. When low uptake finally made them realise (grudgingly) that they had to do something, they offered a half-assed solution that wasn't what was being asked for (reinstating a faux facsimile of the start menu, and still trying to force people into the metro environment). After another long period of kicking and screaming from the userbase, and stubbornly disappointing sales, MS has gritted its teeth and finally said it will give people what they wanted - and what was the minimum that should have been included in the first build.

It's not striking me as a company that is happily listening and striving to please people by giving them what they want. Rather, it's a company that is consistently displaying breathtaking arrogance, insisting it knows best, and trying to force what suits its business strategy down the throats of a userbase that plainly, in large measure, wants something different. Only when faced with a strategy that is plainly failing to deliver the penetration it wants, does it finally do under duress what the many of the users have wanted all along. And which it's fairly obvious should have been included as an option from first release.

I agree here.

Windows 8 from a business point of view is a complete failure. I cannot and will not recommend it to any of my clients. It is far too confusing.

There really is no excuse for not having a option of the old start menu back.

Its quite simple really, Windows 8 ignored the business user base, so they in tern will ignore Windows 8.

How has it taken this long to see progress? It's joke that it has taken Microsoft this long to give us the option back!

A 3rd party start menu replacement is not a solution to this! You shouldn't have to buy one and support a second piece of software which should be unnecessary. I'm not even getting into the fact that even with a 3rd party app, Metro Apps still cause added issues.

we have businesses in NZ rolling out large scale deployments (I'm talking hundreds of devices, and in some cases thousands) of Windows 8 on both desktops (with out touch) tablets, and hybrid tablet/laptops

They don't find it far too confusing

Just because you think its a complete failure from a business point of view doesn't mean that's true

nathan

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#1022732 10-Apr-2014 11:56

networkn:
nathan: sure thing. on my non touch machines, I never really spend any time in Modern environment at all

On my tablet I'm in and out of it all day as I walk around between meetings, out on the road etc

But the flexibility/openness of the Windows platform means you can essentially turn off Modern environment, there's a plethora of utilities, you can add the start menu back by right clicking, adding a new toolbar

agree most people don't have touch screens today

Most new devices are touch though

Some of our biggest Windows fans are diehard keyboard and mouse users, just like you and me. we listened to their feedback. So while we think touch is the future, for people using a PC without touch or folks who just prefer to mouse/keyboard we made Windows 8.1 Update easier

I think this is the sign of a company that is listening, that is reacting that wants to please people

With respect Nathan, the feedback you say MS got, you got VERY VERY early on, and ignored it then, it was only when sales didn't meet expectations that MS "listened". MS has continued to be very bullish about W8 all along and I see remnants of it in your comments.

In my opinion the whole thing has been handled badly, and I wish MS would just admit it graciously. What annoyed me the most was Microsoft long standing assertion that only a few die hard people didn't like the metro screen and that the VAST majority of people loved it. Simply wishing it doesn't make it so.

There are a lot of things I like about W8, I have converted all my machines, but there are things which as a non touch device owner I strongly dislike.

Its simple, if you don't have a need to run Windows 8 then don't.

Windows 7 is still a great modern OS.

The reason I see business deploying Windows 8 are enabling mobile professionals, tablets, new hardware form factors, Touch, mouse, keyboard, and pen support. and Yes I've seen users both young and old loving the new Start Screen as an app launcher, and their space to lay out the things that matter to them

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#1022733 10-Apr-2014 11:57

nathan:
networkn:
nathan: sure thing. on my non touch machines, I never really spend any time in Modern environment at all

On my tablet I'm in and out of it all day as I walk around between meetings, out on the road etc

But the flexibility/openness of the Windows platform means you can essentially turn off Modern environment, there's a plethora of utilities, you can add the start menu back by right clicking, adding a new toolbar

agree most people don't have touch screens today

Most new devices are touch though

Some of our biggest Windows fans are diehard keyboard and mouse users, just like you and me. we listened to their feedback. So while we think touch is the future, for people using a PC without touch or folks who just prefer to mouse/keyboard we made Windows 8.1 Update easier

I think this is the sign of a company that is listening, that is reacting that wants to please people

With respect Nathan, the feedback you say MS got, you got VERY VERY early on, and ignored it then, it was only when sales didn't meet expectations that MS "listened". MS has continued to be very bullish about W8 all along and I see remnants of it in your comments.

In my opinion the whole thing has been handled badly, and I wish MS would just admit it graciously. What annoyed me the most was Microsoft long standing assertion that only a few die hard people didn't like the metro screen and that the VAST majority of people loved it. Simply wishing it doesn't make it so.

There are a lot of things I like about W8, I have converted all my machines, but there are things which as a non touch device owner I strongly dislike.

Its simple, if you don't have a need to run Windows 8 then don't.

Windows 7 is still a great modern OS.

The reason I see business deploying Windows 8 are enabling mobile professionals, tablets, new hardware form factors, Touch, mouse, keyboard, and pen support. and Yes I've seen users both young and old loving the new Start Screen as an app launcher, and their space to lay out the things that matter to them

That in no way addresses the points I made.

nathan

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#1022734 10-Apr-2014 11:58

freitasm: I don't think lacking a Start menu is a big deal, as all applications (traditional and modern) are listed in the Start screen, just a button away, in a flat structure. Searching is easy too.

What really interested me though was talking to someone this week who just started using Windows 8 and asked "How can I watch a movie in a small window while I work on a document?" The WMV was open in the Modern UI Video app. I showed him how to split screen, but his reply was "It uses half of my screen I just need a small window so I can keep working. And how do I close it?"

I explained there was a shipping of [X] buttons arriving for modern apps with Windows 8.1 Update this week so he was a bit more comfortable, but still not happy.

now in Windows 8.1 Update by default on a non-tablet, Pictures, Music and Video files open with Desktop applications

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#1022740 10-Apr-2014 12:09

I feel like maybe someone is putting something in my coffee I don't know about saying this - but I'm actually really happy with Windows 8.1 + Update1.

It's fast and usable on my old XPS m1330.

Christ what's WRONG with me?

gehenna

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#1022780 10-Apr-2014 12:33

^I agree with that...

I only use it at work but it's fine. I'd like to get a Windows Phone to play with and maybe a Windows Tablet to see how the touch stuff works, but as far as a desktop OS goes it's fine now with 8.1, I can do everything I used to do on Windows 7 and with no delays in finding things.

I don't agree with some of the aesthetic choices, but hey I'm a Mac guy since 2003 so it'll be hard for anyone to get me to understand their aesthetic choices when I'm so involved in the Mac world. But all in all it's usable, it does what I need it to do, and it doesn't hinder me in any way.

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#1022796 10-Apr-2014 12:42

freitasm:
TimA: I miss being able to open my computer or control panel easily, Thats where the start menu comes in handy. Also looking through your installed files list is really helpful.
The X button wouldnt matter in the modem interface to me.

I never used the Start menu to open Computer or Control Panel. Window-E will open explorer and both are just a click away.

I agree - I honestly don't understand the fascination with the Start menu. I thought most IT people just started apps using the 'Run' cmd, which Windows 8 makes heaps easier. I have no idea where to find Excel or Calculator or notepad using the Start menu, and I'm a little sketchy on the Control panel too. Why would you do it that way (searching through the 'Start' menu) when "Windows+R -> Control" is so much quicker? :P

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#1022798 10-Apr-2014 12:45

surfisup1000:

Windows 8 makes this a 2 step process requiring you to open file location then send to desktop.

Why? When Windows 7 came out with the pin to Taskbar option I no longer use the desktop to show icons. It just creates clutter which I don't miss at all. If you right click the desktop there is an option to hide the desktop icons which I always enable.

networkn

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#1022818 10-Apr-2014 13:07

Demeter:
freitasm:
TimA: I miss being able to open my computer or control panel easily, Thats where the start menu comes in handy. Also looking through your installed files list is really helpful.
The X button wouldnt matter in the modem interface to me.

I never used the Start menu to open Computer or Control Panel. Window-E will open explorer and both are just a click away.

I agree - I honestly don't understand the fascination with the Start menu. I thought most IT people just started apps using the 'Run' cmd, which Windows 8 makes heaps easier. I have no idea where to find Excel or Calculator or notepad using the Start menu, and I'm a little sketchy on the Control panel too. Why would you do it that way (searching through the 'Start' menu) when "Windows+R -> Control" is so much quicker? :P

How does accessing the control panel your way beat two mouse clicks (Which ever single windows user in the world already knows how to do ?)

Also why control R to run, why don't you just click start and type the same thing.

Demeter

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#1022824 10-Apr-2014 13:11

networkn:
Demeter:
freitasm:
TimA: I miss being able to open my computer or control panel easily, Thats where the start menu comes in handy. Also looking through your installed files list is really helpful.
The X button wouldnt matter in the modem interface to me.

I never used the Start menu to open Computer or Control Panel. Window-E will open explorer and both are just a click away.

I agree - I honestly don't understand the fascination with the Start menu. I thought most IT people just started apps using the 'Run' cmd, which Windows 8 makes heaps easier. I have no idea where to find Excel or Calculator or notepad using the Start menu, and I'm a little sketchy on the Control panel too. Why would you do it that way (searching through the 'Start' menu) when "Windows+R -> Control" is so much quicker? :P

How does accessing the control panel your way beat two mouse clicks (Which ever single windows user in the world already knows how to do ?)

Also why control R to run, why don't you just click start and type the same thing.

Because why should I move my hands off my keyboard?

surfisup1000

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#1022872 10-Apr-2014 14:02

And, what does 'pin to start' (right click on application in metro screen) actually do?

In windows 7 it makes the program (eg, CMD) available on the start menu in the same place everytime you need it.

On windows 8, it's a pot shot. I don't know where it goes and the CMD command moves all over the cluttered metro area .

And, why can't i remove applications i do not use from the metro view .

So, if i'm looking for something i have to read through obscure & unused apps like "configure java", 'windows defender', 'battlefield EULA'. I just want the apps i use to appear in metro. Not all that other stuff.

I bet someone has a way to do this as it is too obvious a requirement. Does anybody know?

surfisup1000

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#1022876 10-Apr-2014 14:11

And another annoyance (i'm starting to use win8 more) --- when i click the metro button in the bottom left corner and start typing the name of the app, the search box and results are displayed in the top right corner (ie, complete opposite). So, you have to navigate the mouse miles away to the total opposite side of the screen.

Just a little thing, but it shows they did not consider UI efficiency.

Windows 7 had it right, search results appear close to the start button.

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