Microsoft might bring back Start Menu, Modern UI apps on desktop

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charsleysa

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#950549 11-Dec-2013 17:52

surfisup1000:
charsleysa:

Who ever wrote that review sounds like a dumba$$.

Because you are right?

Because he relies on results of 12 people using the operating system. 12 is too small a number for an OS and they were all the same type of user. No other information about the users were given, only that they were "experienced users". For about half his points he relied on just the observations of the users.
Sounds like he picked a bunch of his colleagues watched them use it for 2 minutes then wrote a whole bunch of information based on their incompetence, though that's just mere speculation.

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Stefan Andres Charsley

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#950552 11-Dec-2013 17:55

Ooo I smell a ban ...

Ragnor

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#950563 11-Dec-2013 18:13

charsleysa:

Who ever wrote that review sounds like a dumba$$.

Neilsen group is well established and respected independent UX research and consulting group.

You might wan to calm it down a bit, it sounds like you've had too much MS kool aid.

charsleysa

597 posts

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#950568 11-Dec-2013 18:18

Ragnor:
charsleysa:

Who ever wrote that review sounds like a dumba$$.

Neilsen group is well established and respected independent UX research and consulting group.

You might wan to calm it down a bit, it sounds like you've had too much MS kool aid.

I may have gone overboard with the name calling and I retract that statement but my comments of the flaws in that particular article still stand.

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Stefan Andres Charsley

nathan

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#950599 11-Dec-2013 19:20

great feedback, keep it coming

to everyone mentioning about the new Modern UI Start Screen, I just suggest that you may not like it, but what about the end users that are actually using the system?

Sometimes in IT I think we maybe know too much sometimes and underestimate end users.

are you the target market or is it the mass market out there

Us in IT know that you can add a 3rd party start menu replacement, or builtin, just a new toolbar to the taskbar -> C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu

but it seems instead of doing that its just easier to complain

Put a touch device in front of a young person and they just intuitively get it

Yes some people don't like things changing. Whether that on their PC or anything in life. Yes some users will log a help desk call when their background changes from yellow to blue. Yes you need to have a reason to roll out and use Windows 8.1, especially in business.

Yes its a change, yes its different. Why on earth did we ever click on start to shutdown for example. Why did we hunt and peck through a start menu of nested folders to launch apps?

:)

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Snowflake

#950644 11-Dec-2013 21:06

nathan: Why on earth did we ever click on start to shutdown for example.

that reminds me of the early days and the art of dragging floppy disks to the trash can on Mac OS in order to eject them..

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JimmyH

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#950693 11-Dec-2013 22:25

charsleysa: I really hope they don't, those who cannot use the Windows 8 UI either are incapable of change or wish to be ignorant to change.
I enjoy the new UI, it makes things easier. In fact some things are easier to do on Windows 8, but the only thing that springs to mind that's more difficult is pairing a bluetooth device because it requires an extra step.

I don't buy this argument. Something different comes out and is disliked. That doesn't mean that the people who dislike it are incapable of change, "afraid" of change, or wish to be ignorant of change. It simply means that they don't like what they are being asked to use. It's a lazy way to argue a position - tossing unsubstantiated pejoratives at people who disagree with you isn't a substitute for objectively rebutting their point of view.

Personally, I have been using computers for some time now in various guises. I have used mainframes back in the day whan a vax terminal running VMS was modern, IBM systems still referred to hard disks as DASDs, and my personal system had 48K of ram and booted Applesoft DOS (released from memory, around 1979). Along the way I have used Macs (in various guises and to greater or lesser extents), Linux, MS Dos, OS/2, Windows (95, NT, 2000, XP, Vista, and 7), Symbian and Android. I have a fairly decent track record of changing to newer computer systems and OSes, and generally enjoying the experience. I don't consider myself to be incapable of change, afraid of change, or even particularly change resistant. In fact, much of the time, I tended to be eager anticipating new developments and keen for faster change.

I have, however, tried Windows 8 and I dislike it heartily. Sure, it works as far as speed and footprint are concerned. But if you aren't on a touch-screen device then I find the interface is annoying, frustrating, schizophrenic and just downright jarring. I won't be getting a box with Win8 on it - in fact I'm close to jumping ship from Windows to a Mac (which I haven't used since System 8). I have no objection to a tablet interface - I actually have one on my tablet that works well - I just don't want one on my desktop.

I understand you like it. Good luck to you. I, however, don't like it. Neither, apparently, do a lot of other people.

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gundar

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#951611 13-Dec-2013 13:46

Behodar: This might be enough to make us consider "8.2" at work. We're currently sticking with 7 and I'm sure that many others are doing the same.

Nobody has ever shown me conclusive proof that there are gains to any business achieved by switching from 7 to 8 or 8.1.

I've managed to switch totally over to Linux rather than go to 8 and it was worth it. For a start, I had hardware left over, rather than having to buy anything at all.

gundar

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#951617 13-Dec-2013 13:50

Even Linux you use whatever manager someone has made unless you are clever enough to design your own operating system.

That's not true at all.

crackrdbycracku

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#951710 13-Dec-2013 15:27

Ok, here goes.

Touch screens are the way of the future. I won't buy another computing device without a touch screen. They are expensive now but that will change, time will not run backwards.

Win 8 should have had a better option for non-touch screen devices, that it was a mistake and that is that.

I think Charms, not loving the name, is the new Start Menu. It has the turn off switch, settings and search. A better button for that would be good but we don't need Start as we had it.

A better way would have been to allow people to opt in to either Modern or Desktop. Most of the criticism was around the feeling that people were being forced into Modern and that the switching between Modern and Desktop was jarring. That isn't a problem with the OS it is that two UIs, not OSs, are trying to be pushed together.

Mouse and Qwerty keyboard isn't 'natural' we just think it is because we have been using it for so long. The Qwerty keyboard was originally designed to slow typing down.

Microsoft's seeming inability to release a finished product in Gen One obviously didn't help the Win 8 cause.

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TwoSeven

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#951786 13-Dec-2013 17:40

I have always said, one platform for windows, but multiple configurations. In other words, when one sticks the install CD in it should detect/prompt for the device and install the appropriate configuration - tablet, desktop, laptop, touch, non-touch, embedded, phone etc. (that's configuration - not sub-set of features).

Also, modern apps needed to be integrated into the 'legacy' desktop - I think that was really the critical architectural mistake (in my opinion).

Responsible UI (in which modern is related to) indicates that one tailors the UI to the capabilities of the device and needs of the user. I wouldn't install a desktop on a Surface RT device and I wouldn't probably require modern apps on a device using a desktop (unless they looked an ran like desktop apps). But that doesn't imply one can't use the same OS across all devices.

Having said that sometimes one has to force ones users through a paradigm shift and sometimes on needs to but out the product early to begin that shift - getting the feedback is what allows it to improve in the long haul - listening to ones users voices (and not relying on telemetry) is how one gets that feedback.

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