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Topic # 121083 24-Jun-2013 11:21
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Hi Folks,
Just wondering what the best way to log a defect on Windows 8 is (other than phoning).  I have tried Connect but there is nothing visible there at the moment.  I would like to find out if a defect for the fault has already been logged (and what the timescale for the fix might be) or if I need to log a new one.

I'm using Win 8 on a Surface Pro and basically the Bluetooth networking is not what I would call 'fit for purpose'.  It randomly drops connections and will produce an error message upon connection requiring multiple connection attempts or a reboot before it connects again.  It also does not resume when waking up from sleep/hibernate  (a good comms stack should silently attempt to auto-reconnect when resuming).

There is also no bridge when hyper-v is set up (virtual switch) although there is one for Wifi which indicates to me that it [Bluetooth] may not be feature complete.

Looking at the exception messages that get displayed it appears to me that the stack is not re-initializing itself correctly after dropping the connection or resuming from sleep leaving the device in a failed state, and it is not able to rec-connect if an attempt is then made to use the connection.

The result of the defect is that one has to keep navigating to the Bluetooth icon and selecting join PAN  after 10-15 minutes of usage (usually when submitting an online form and getting a -not connected- error) or having to shutdown applications in order to reboot.

(I don't understand why one has to use such a convoluted Bluetooth menu hierarchy when it really should be showing the PAN under the Internet access like it does with WiFi connections.)

I have all of the firmware updates and windows updates installed and am aware of quite a lot of posts on various forums around this issue.

Regards.




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  Reply # 842256 24-Jun-2013 11:26
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Reinstall the OS, maybe something was corrupted and these things can be difficult to resolve --- doesn't windows 8 have a 'reset' option which returns the OS to new state? That might help.

Or, Return it to your retailer under the terms of the consumer guarantees act. 

You don't have easy answers for a problem like this. 

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  Reply # 842265 24-Jun-2013 11:45
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What device is providing you the Bluetooth PAN? If it is a smartphone, any reason why not use WiFi Hotspot (unless it is not supported in your specific model)?

Any other Bluetooth PAN clients working ok with this PAN server?

Is there 2.4 GHz interference around you, such as cordless phones, microwave ovens and WiFi access points?





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  Reply # 842283 24-Jun-2013 12:04
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Outside of troubleshooting, what are you trying to achieve?

If the hardware doesn't do what you want it to, take it back.

Otherwise troubleshoot and try and find a workaround. Otherwise cross your fingers and hope it is fixed in an update.

Given your use case is not part of 98% of the population - good luck.



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  Reply # 842303 24-Jun-2013 12:24
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freitasm: What device is providing you the Bluetooth PAN? If it is a smartphone, any reason why not use WiFi Hotspot (unless it is not supported in your specific model)?

Any other Bluetooth PAN clients working ok with this PAN server?

Is there 2.4 GHz interference around you, such as cordless phones, microwave ovens and WiFi access points?


IPhone 4s which is working nicely with every other device (not running Win 8) I have - all of which will hold the connection all day without issue.

I don't use Wifi because I don't need the performance, I do need the longevity of battery (BT lasts me all day, Wifi about an hour or two).  Usually just keep the IPhone in my bag and it works fine, Wifi tethering gets disconnected 90seconds after the lock screen for power saving).

I don't believe its an electrical/mechanical issue - given the nature of the errors, I am leaning towards not so well developed software (or more likely not quite feature complete).

I might point out that when connected I can use the surface quite a long way from the surface and still get excellent performance which to me indicates its not signal degradation. I am more thinking that the disconnects might be caused by the power saving scheme.  I have deselected the 'allow this computer to turn off this device' option on the Marvel BT adaptor which made a small improvement.





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  Reply # 842308 24-Jun-2013 12:27
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wasabi2k: Outside of troubleshooting, what are you trying to achieve?

If the hardware doesn't do what you want it to, take it back.

Otherwise troubleshoot and try and find a workaround. Otherwise cross your fingers and hope it is fixed in an update.

Given your use case is not part of 98% of the population - good luck.

A bit of an odd post so am not quite sure how to respond except by asking you if you return your car back to the people you brought it from when you get a flat tire, or do you take the tire in and get it fixed?

Also, what research did you do to show that I am only in a small percentile of users that are reporting this issue.  My examination of several forums seems to indicate otherwise.

Regards




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  Reply # 842328 24-Jun-2013 12:47
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You could submit a report to their bug tracker... oh, right.

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  Reply # 842365 24-Jun-2013 13:51
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Does this happen on other Windows 8 Tablets or is it just the Surface?

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  Reply # 842376 24-Jun-2013 14:00
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What I was trying to say is - are you trying to get Microsoft to fix something with Windows 8?

In which case, use their support links:
https://support.microsoft.com/oas/default.aspx?Gprid=17116&st=1&wfxredirect=1&sd=gn&wfxredirect=1

Chances are you will have to ring them. But at the end of the day the chances it is a Windows 8 specific issue are pretty slim - far more likely to be a malfunctioning bluetooth radio or driver. 

But what are you going to tell them?

Is your issue with the Surface Pro Tablet?
Or Windows 8?
Have you tested it with other hardware?
Have you reinstalled Windows 8?

However, don't expect your logging the issue to result in Microsoft fixing it for you. As I said before, Bluetooth PAN is NOT what I would consider a standard use case. This doesn't mean it is ok it doesn't work, not at all, but you're not joe average. By all means log it, but then you can hurry up and wait.

If you are looking for troubleshooting help and advice great - but that's not what you asked.

If you think it's the hardware that isn't working, take it back and get another one - it is something you can isolate and test.

Your car analogy is disingenuous. A tablet is not modular with user replaceable parts (like tyres). And to be honest if I bought a car brand new and it didn't work I WOULD take it back.




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  Reply # 842404 24-Jun-2013 14:40
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nathan: Does this happen on other Windows 8 Tablets or is it just the Surface?

Unfortunately I don't have access to other devices to test. However, here is the sequence from the System Event Queue.

When waking system up by pressing power key.

Kernel Boot (0x2)
BTUSB - The local Bluetooth adapter has failed in an undetermined manner and will not be used. The driver has been unloaded.
Power Trouble Shooter -The system has returned from a low power state.

Sleep Time: ‎2013‎-‎06‎-‎24T02:07:29.651466100Z

Wake Time: ‎2013‎-‎06‎-‎24T02:17:20.523641700Z

Wake Source: Unknown
BTUSB - The mutual authentication between the local Bluetooth adapter and a device with Bluetooth adapter address (60:fa:cd:41:a4:37) failed.

(not sure if this address is the PAN that it is trying to resume the connection with)

I sometimes see the following warning following the power up:
BTUSB -A command sent to the adapter has timed out. The adapter did not respond.



The other one is (this is the opposite of above, it occurs when I put the computer to sleep) 

Kernel Boot - Firmware S3 times. ResumeCount: 3, FullResume: 266, AverageResume: 266
BTUSB - Windows cannot store Bluetooth authentication codes (link keys) on the local adapter. Bluetooth keyboards might not work in the system BIOS during start-up.

Power trouble shooter - the system has entered a low power state.

These are the most common logged errors, however, I have not looked to see if anything is logged during a dropped connection scenario.  If I get a chance I shall post the UI error messages and sequence that occurs.








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  Reply # 842413 24-Jun-2013 14:48
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BTUSB - Windows cannot store Bluetooth authentication codes (link keys) on the local adapter. Bluetooth keyboards might not work in the system BIOS during start-up.
I get that too - don't think it's a biggie.

Have you completely removed and reinstalled the latest drivers for your bluetooth adapter (a marvel I believe?)



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  Reply # 842414 24-Jun-2013 14:49
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wasabi2k: What I was trying to say is - are you trying to get Microsoft to fix something with Windows 8?

In which case, use their support links:
https://support.microsoft.com/oas/default.aspx?Gprid=17116&st=1&wfxredirect=1&sd=gn&wfxredirect=1

Chances are you will have to ring them. But at the end of the day the chances it is a Windows 8 specific issue are pretty slim - far more likely to be a malfunctioning bluetooth radio or driver. 



Thanks for that.

I shall use that link if required.  At least if the issue is logged, someone at some stage may take a look at it. 

Usually in the rare case that I actually do contact MS I like to have a complete diagnoses and some potential solutions.  I have been known with some companies to even write code to demonstrate the issue and use that to suggest a solution.

Since I am a s/w developer by profession, reporting the issue is the easy bit, however, since dev/support teams are usually resource challenged before an incremental release, if I can also find a potential solution before I report the issue, it sometimes helps in getting a more permanent fix. :)

Regards

Edit:  The repro is pretty simple.  Using an IPhone, turn off Wifi, turn on BT, Turn on personal hotsport (USB & BT only).  On Surface, ensure not connected to Wifi, connect to BT PAN.  Put machine into sleep state (shut lid, or power button), open lid, try to access internet.   The random disconnect is a little harder - connect to PAN, browse web page, leave machine idle (simulate reading document) for a period, try to access internet (usually receive browser error and when reconnecting to PAN will get exception dialog twice before successful reconnect).





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  Reply # 845234 25-Jun-2013 20:27
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I managed to watch it disconnect today. Had the IPhone sitting beside the surface and saw the connection indicator quit. I had been reading something and I suspect it went into a low power state as it was about the time that the screen went darker.

My suspicion is that when windows changes power states it is disconnecting and in some cases unloading the BT driver (for example when entering sleep state). When the system is powering up or resuming to a high power state the driver is failing to be initialized in time.

Checking online indicates this issue (or one similar) goes back to Win 7 and possibly Vista.




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  Reply # 845298 25-Jun-2013 21:53
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Do you have power management tab in Device Manager for this device? Could you turn the power management off perhaps?






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  Reply # 845387 26-Jun-2013 08:53
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Yes, on the Marvel BT device there is power management 'allow this device to be turned off', which I have unchecked, but it has not seemed to have made a difference.





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  Reply # 845546 26-Jun-2013 12:41
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Following on from my two Event messages above. If I clear the event logs, connect to BT, then hit the power button (enter sleep), wait a bit and then power up. I get the above two error messages but also the third:-

Source: BTUSB - The mutual authentication between the local Bluetooth adapter and a device with Bluetooth adapter address (xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx) failed.

The xx:xx is the MAC address is that of the phone.




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