PSA: Protest Action blocking roads in Wellington may start again from Monday 28th August

Forums › Off topic › PSA: Protest Action blocking roads in Wellington may start again from Monday 28th August

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#3121875 30-Aug-2023 13:16

I kinda get the feeling that some players are trying to get this thread either locked or jailed in the political section. Can we please drop the silly talk of guns and macho postering and get back on topic. This is a serious subject.

MikeAqua

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#3121879 30-Aug-2023 13:29

SaltyNZ:

Aside from the rise in remote meetings, which are even better than travel in many cases, I think people really need to get over this 'slightly less convenient' thing. The world is burning because we want everything to be slightly more convenient.

The last two times I needed to to Palmerston North or Wellington I drove down in the EV. Not sure either was really much less convenient than flying, especially once you consider getting to and from the airports at each end - I live about an hour from Auckland Airport, best case - but either way it was a pretty small sacrifice in the scheme of things.

The problem with remote meeting spaces, is they facilitate the proliferation of meetings in a way that physical meeting spaces didn't. Plenty of people are also much less engaged in virtual meetings. I'm in a compulsory online training course right now, and I couldn't tell you anything the instructor has said in the last hour. She did say there won't be a test though so.

The problem with driving very far, regardless of vehicle type, is the time. Time cannot be replaced, and time in a car is unproductive. It's also downright dangerous, compared to flying. If I drive to ChCh (non-stop), I can write off four -hours. And it's a moderately risky road. I can't work during that time.

If I take the bus it takes 8 hours 😮 and I'll be too nauseous to work.

If there was 90-minute train to ChCh, I'd be all over that. There is a train (some days) but it takes >5 hours.

If I fly it takes me less than two hours from my house to ChCh CBD. I can work while waiting in the airport and on-board. Or I can nap, that's frowned upon when driving.

Bring on the cleantech for short-haul domestic flights!

Mike

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#3121882 30-Aug-2023 13:37

MikeAqua:

The problem with remote meeting spaces, is they facilitate the proliferation of meetings in a way that physical meeting spaces didn't. Plenty of people are also much less engaged in virtual meetings.

Can't say I disagree with you there - although in my case, the meetings proliferated even when they were still physical. At least I can work through a virtual meeting that's a complete waste of my time. Browsing GZ on your phone during a useless in-person meeting is almost as frowned upon as napping while driving.

If there was 90-minute train to ChCh, I'd be all over that. There is a train (some days) but it takes >5 hours.

Yeah, we get that ... that is kind of the point of what the original protestors this thread was originally about 170 pages back are saying. This whole country seems to be infected with a disease where everything is shit and I don't like it but don't do you dare suggest we change anything because it's too hard and I might have to pay taxes.

There didn't used to be a 5 hour train, or an airport, or a road. Until someone built them. They weren't built for free then, either. And when they were built, they were built just because someone thought they'd be better than not - not because there was a probably existential reason necessitating their existence.

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GV27

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#3121886 30-Aug-2023 14:02

Lias:

Okay I chuckled.

I got what I came for, I'll be good now 😬

Lias

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#3121889 30-Aug-2023 14:19

SaltyNZ:

And when they were built, they were built just because someone thought they'd be better than not - not because there was a probably existential reason necessitating their existence.

I'd argue most things get built because politicians or business want them to get built. If it's a business they obviously expect it to be profitable, but are often proved wrong. If it's politicians driving it, it can be need, ideology, or corruption. The fact that something has been built doesn't mean it's actually needed or viable.

I'm sure we could build a 1 hour train, but does it make sense to do so, is it economically feasible, etc. Probably not.

This lot want rail improved because of an ideological opinion that it's the best solution for climate change. Now maybe it is, maybe it isn't, but either way we can't build things just because they solve one problem if they cause others. There's no point saving the planet if we bankrupt the world's economies for instance..

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Senecio

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#3121890 30-Aug-2023 14:29

Lias:

There's no point saving the planet if we bankrupt the world's economies for instance..

The irony of that is... bankrupting the world's economies is probably the best thing we could do to save the planet.

SaltyNZ

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#3121891 30-Aug-2023 14:30

Lias:

There's no point saving the planet if we bankrupt the world's economies for instance..

Yes, but that's the point. The world is burning. We've had billions of dollars of damage caused by the multiple once-in-a-century storms in New Zealand this year alone. How will the economy handle that kind of shock annually?

Hundreds of thousands of people have died in unprecedented heat waves, droughts, fires, and floods around the world. 10,000 penguin chicks died when the Antarctic sea ice broke up underneath them this year. A cold spot is developing in the north Atlantic that ocean models all generate as the precursor to the largest heat engine on the planet shutting down having devastating consequences for the northern hemisphere.

If we don't take urgent action, the world's economies are going to be bankrupted whether they like it or not.

And don't trot out the old "Oh, New Zealand is too small to make a difference". It's a cop out, and when everyone uses it - because nobody is a big part of the problem - then we are all just as f***ed.

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MikeB4

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#3121908 30-Aug-2023 14:49

Lias:

There's no point saving the planet if we bankrupt the world's economies for instance..

That is the same arrogant attitude that has got us to the mess we are in, we have no right to make that decision on behalf of the circa 8.5 million species on this planet now and in the future because we place the God money above all else.

Handle9

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#3121914 30-Aug-2023 15:01

MikeB4:

Lias:

There's no point saving the planet if we bankrupt the world's economies for instance..

That is the same arrogant attitude that has got us to the mess we are in, we have no right to make that decision on behalf of the circa 8.5 million species on this planet now and in the future because we place the God money above all else.

When you had your business I seem to recall you making a comment on here that you would have like to have bought EVs but they were too expensive. I struggle to reconcile that with your comment above.

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#3121915 30-Aug-2023 15:02

Handle9:

When you had your business I seem to recall you making a comment on here that you would have like to have bought EVs but they were too expensive. I struggle to reconcile that with your comment above.

People can change their mind, you know.

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#3121917 30-Aug-2023 15:04

SaltyNZ:

GV27:

When can I start RPG-ing SUVs in the street because they're gas-guzzlers?

There's already a bunch of people who go around letting their tires down. Try starting there. RPGs are expensive.

Really? This is not the kind of advice/joke to have here.

Lias

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#3121918 30-Aug-2023 15:04

MikeB4:

That is the same arrogant attitude that has got us to the mess we are in, we have no right to make that decision on behalf of the circa 8.5 million species on this planet now and in the future because we place the God money above all else.

You maintain that others can't make decisions that impact everyone, while wanting to make decisions that.. impact everyone.. Therein lies the crux of the problem.. people are always going to have differing views. I'm sure there are people that think we should exploit every natural resource no matter the cost to the environment, others who think we should save the environment even if it means killing off the population of the planet by reverting to pre industrial technology and everything in between. I might be being pessimistic but I don't think anything other than steady, gradual change will ever gain traction. I'm sure there's a quote from someone along the lines that if no one is happy you've probably reached the best path.

MikeB4

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#3121919 30-Aug-2023 15:08

Handle9:

When you had your business I seem to recall you making a comment on here that you would have like to have bought EVs but they were too expensive. I struggle to reconcile that with your comment above.

At that time we made a decision based on our responsibility to pay our creditors and our staff. Now that we have wound up our business we own a PHEV and have on order a BEV. For myself I purchased an electric mobility scooter that I use for the majority of my transport needs in conjunction with trains when my wife is at work.

MikeB4

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#3121921 30-Aug-2023 15:12

@Lias did I not say "It should be in all parties manifestos that following the election that there is an all party group formed to pursue urgent change to our transport infrastructure to make it environmentally sustainable." Where is that "me" wanting to make decisions for everyone

Lias

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#3121925 30-Aug-2023 15:20

MikeB4:

@Lias did I not say "It should be in all parties manifestos that following the election that there is an all party group formed to pursue urgent change to our transport infrastructure to make it environmentally sustainable." Where is that "me" wanting to make decisions for everyone

Because you still want all the parties to do something?

I'm grossly simplifying but I don't think it's all that much of a stretch to sum up the 4 main political parties in NZ as having the following views on the matter

Greens: "Sustainability at any cost"
Labour: "Sustainability is needed and we will have to have some economic pain"
National: "Sustainability is desirable, but it can't cause too much economic pain"
ACT: "Sustainability is desirable, but only if it's profitable"

How would they ever agree on an approach that meets your desired outcome? There's realpolitik and then there's reality..

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