ZOMG we need those anti-terror surveillance laws right now!

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MikeB4
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#1198581 16-Dec-2014 18:43

heylinb4nz:
sir1963:

Obviously NO, what you are describing is paranoia.

ANYONE who wants a gun for "self defence" should never be allowed one. They have shown the are frightened, and frightened people do stupid things, they have also shown a willingness to kill another person.

I wonder how many acts of "self defence" are by people deliberately putting themselves into situations where they can 'legally' kill someone.

2012 NZ had a murder rate of 0.9 per 100,000 people, the USA is 4.7 per 100,000 , i.e. over 5 times higher

or how about the rates for violent crime, rape, Aggravated assault in the year 2000 USA vs NZ
http://www.justice.govt.nz/publications/publications-archived/2002/international-comparisons-of-recorded-violent-crime-rates-for-2000/new-zealand-compared-to-usa-violent-crime

Guns have NOT solved any problems in the USA, it just creates MORE dead Americans

How about this one too
Since the December 2012 shooting in Newtown, CT, there have been at least 94 school shootings in America — an average of nearly one a week
http://everytown.org/article/schoolshootings/

You would also think that with the significantly more punitive "justice" system in the USA that if that actually worked, crime would be lower than NZ.

OMG!!! the old get gun turn into a cold blooded killer argument.....seriously you come to the argument with baseless left wing liberal anti gun rubbish like that ?

QUOTE "ANYONE who wants a gun for "self defence" should never be allowed one"

What do the police use them for then ? why are their needs to effective self defence any less than anyone else ?

Again im not arguing that USA doesnt have a gun problem, im simply saying that a select few people willing to do proper training and vetting should be allowed to CCW and that would not create the issue you speak of in a free for all 2nd amendment model.

Again for the record, im not saying guns only, im saying training and making sure the right people have them as well. (not necessarily just police).

I think you need to chill a bit. Your aggression does not assist your position, in fact the opposite.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

SaltyNZ

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#1198584 16-Dec-2014 18:48

Remember, children, guns don't kill people, *bullets* kill people!

iPad Pro 11" + iPhone 15 Pro Max + 2degrees 4tw!

These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.

sir1963

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#1198592 16-Dec-2014 19:20

heylinb4nz:
sir1963:

Obviously NO, what you are describing is paranoia.

ANYONE who wants a gun for "self defence" should never be allowed one. They have shown the are frightened, and frightened people do stupid things, they have also shown a willingness to kill another person.

I wonder how many acts of "self defence" are by people deliberately putting themselves into situations where they can 'legally' kill someone.

2012 NZ had a murder rate of 0.9 per 100,000 people, the USA is 4.7 per 100,000 , i.e. over 5 times higher

or how about the rates for violent crime, rape, Aggravated assault in the year 2000 USA vs NZ
http://www.justice.govt.nz/publications/publications-archived/2002/international-comparisons-of-recorded-violent-crime-rates-for-2000/new-zealand-compared-to-usa-violent-crime

Guns have NOT solved any problems in the USA, it just creates MORE dead Americans

How about this one too
Since the December 2012 shooting in Newtown, CT, there have been at least 94 school shootings in America — an average of nearly one a week
http://everytown.org/article/schoolshootings/

You would also think that with the significantly more punitive "justice" system in the USA that if that actually worked, crime would be lower than NZ.

OMG!!! the old get gun turn into a cold blooded killer argument.....seriously you come to the argument with baseless left wing liberal anti gun rubbish like that ?

QUOTE "ANYONE who wants a gun for "self defence" should never be allowed one"

What do the police use them for then ? why are their needs to effective self defence any less than anyone else ?

Again im not arguing that USA doesnt have a gun problem, im simply saying that a select few people willing to do proper training and vetting should be allowed to CCW and that would not create the issue you speak of in a free for all 2nd amendment model.

Again for the record, im not saying guns only, im saying training and making sure the right people have them as well. (not necessarily just police).

To be blunt the world would be better off if more people had better training to drive a car, it would save significantly more lives. You are typically 5 times more likely to be killed in a car than murdered. Never mind the thousands who are left permanently maimed.

As for that "select few people", the numbers would be so small as to be worthless, heck we have 11,000 personnel in the police force and it can take them days to get to a crime. The chances of "the select few" being on the scene is so small you would have a much better chance of winning lotto.

MikeB4

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#1198594 16-Dec-2014 19:23

SaltyNZ: Remember, children, guns don't kill people, *bullets* kill people!

A bullet unassisted is a piece of metal. It needs help to kill.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

MikeB4

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#1198609 16-Dec-2014 19:29

In our society the only reason to have a firearm is for sport like small bore target shooting or professional reasons. Hunting is no longer a valid reason to own a firearm.

The sports firearms should be stored in a secure location like a club and used only at approved locations.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

SaltyNZ

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#1198630 16-Dec-2014 20:24

KiwiNZ:
SaltyNZ: Remember, children, guns don't kill people, *bullets* kill people!

A bullet unassisted is a piece of metal. It needs help to kill.

I should have put <sarcasm> on that, sorry. :-)

iPad Pro 11" + iPhone 15 Pro Max + 2degrees 4tw!

These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.

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MikeB4

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#1198631 16-Dec-2014 20:26

SaltyNZ:
KiwiNZ:
SaltyNZ: Remember, children, guns don't kill people, *bullets* kill people!

A bullet unassisted is a piece of metal. It needs help to kill.

I should have put <sarcasm> on that, sorry. :-)

I had picked up on that. ☺

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

heylinb4nz

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#1198640 16-Dec-2014 20:40

KiwiNZ:
heylinb4nz:
sir1963:

Obviously NO, what you are describing is paranoia.

ANYONE who wants a gun for "self defence" should never be allowed one. They have shown the are frightened, and frightened people do stupid things, they have also shown a willingness to kill another person.

I wonder how many acts of "self defence" are by people deliberately putting themselves into situations where they can 'legally' kill someone.

2012 NZ had a murder rate of 0.9 per 100,000 people, the USA is 4.7 per 100,000 , i.e. over 5 times higher

or how about the rates for violent crime, rape, Aggravated assault in the year 2000 USA vs NZ
http://www.justice.govt.nz/publications/publications-archived/2002/international-comparisons-of-recorded-violent-crime-rates-for-2000/new-zealand-compared-to-usa-violent-crime

Guns have NOT solved any problems in the USA, it just creates MORE dead Americans

How about this one too
Since the December 2012 shooting in Newtown, CT, there have been at least 94 school shootings in America — an average of nearly one a week
http://everytown.org/article/schoolshootings/

You would also think that with the significantly more punitive "justice" system in the USA that if that actually worked, crime would be lower than NZ.

OMG!!! the old get gun turn into a cold blooded killer argument.....seriously you come to the argument with baseless left wing liberal anti gun rubbish like that ?

QUOTE "ANYONE who wants a gun for "self defence" should never be allowed one"

What do the police use them for then ? why are their needs to effective self defence any less than anyone else ?

Again im not arguing that USA doesnt have a gun problem, im simply saying that a select few people willing to do proper training and vetting should be allowed to CCW and that would not create the issue you speak of in a free for all 2nd amendment model.

Again for the record, im not saying guns only, im saying training and making sure the right people have them as well. (not necessarily just police).

I think you need to chill a bit. Your aggression does not assist your position, in fact the opposite.

Its called frustration. Gets so old dredging up USA gun stats and anti-gun rhetoric in answer to perfectly good questions. The whole point is why do we treat a trained police officer\soldier any different to a trained civilian, uniform aside any sane, reasonable and skilled person could (with training) perform the same duty in protection of ones self and\or another.

andrewNZ

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#1198641 16-Dec-2014 20:41

KiwiNZ: Hunting is no longer a valid reason to own a firearm.

I cannot tell you how much i disagree with this. In fact I'd say there is a far stronger case for hunting than target shooting. There is no more "need" to shoot targets than there I to hunt, but hunting typically has other benefits.

heylinb4nz

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#1198643 16-Dec-2014 20:47

KiwiNZ: In our society the only reason to have a firearm is for sport like small bore target shooting or professional reasons. Hunting is no longer a valid reason to own a firearm.

The sports firearms should be stored in a secure location like a club and used only at approved locations.

this sentence could be summed up as

"pointless rules and regulation to make me FEEL safe"

MikeB4

MikeB4
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#1198644 16-Dec-2014 20:48

andrewNZ:
KiwiNZ: Hunting is no longer a valid reason to own a firearm.

I cannot tell you how much i disagree with this. In fact I'd say there is a far stronger case for hunting than target shooting. There is no more "need" to shoot targets than there I to hunt, but hunting typically has other benefits.

I said that being a person you spent a big chunk of my youth chasing Goat, Sika and other Deer, Rabbit shooting and being scared whitless by pigs.These days there is too many people in the bush and less places to hunt in safety not to mention there is too many cowboys who are just interested in blasting away at anything.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

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heylinb4nz

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#1198645 16-Dec-2014 20:49

some light reading here

http://www.salemthesoldier.us/gun_control_personalities.html

Beccara

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#1198646 16-Dec-2014 20:51

heylinb4nz:
KiwiNZ:
heylinb4nz:
sir1963:

Obviously NO, what you are describing is paranoia.

ANYONE who wants a gun for "self defence" should never be allowed one. They have shown the are frightened, and frightened people do stupid things, they have also shown a willingness to kill another person.

I wonder how many acts of "self defence" are by people deliberately putting themselves into situations where they can 'legally' kill someone.

2012 NZ had a murder rate of 0.9 per 100,000 people, the USA is 4.7 per 100,000 , i.e. over 5 times higher

or how about the rates for violent crime, rape, Aggravated assault in the year 2000 USA vs NZ
http://www.justice.govt.nz/publications/publications-archived/2002/international-comparisons-of-recorded-violent-crime-rates-for-2000/new-zealand-compared-to-usa-violent-crime

Guns have NOT solved any problems in the USA, it just creates MORE dead Americans

How about this one too
Since the December 2012 shooting in Newtown, CT, there have been at least 94 school shootings in America — an average of nearly one a week
http://everytown.org/article/schoolshootings/

You would also think that with the significantly more punitive "justice" system in the USA that if that actually worked, crime would be lower than NZ.

OMG!!! the old get gun turn into a cold blooded killer argument.....seriously you come to the argument with baseless left wing liberal anti gun rubbish like that ?

QUOTE "ANYONE who wants a gun for "self defence" should never be allowed one"

What do the police use them for then ? why are their needs to effective self defence any less than anyone else ?

Again im not arguing that USA doesnt have a gun problem, im simply saying that a select few people willing to do proper training and vetting should be allowed to CCW and that would not create the issue you speak of in a free for all 2nd amendment model.

Again for the record, im not saying guns only, im saying training and making sure the right people have them as well. (not necessarily just police).

I think you need to chill a bit. Your aggression does not assist your position, in fact the opposite.

Its called frustration. Gets so old dredging up USA gun stats and anti-gun rhetoric in answer to perfectly good questions. The whole point is why do we treat a trained police officer\soldier any different to a trained civilian, uniform aside any sane, reasonable and skilled person could (with training) perform the same duty in protection of ones self and\or another.

We treat them different because they are different, Training is only 1/2 the solution - To be effective one must be able to control and counter basic responses and suppress instinctive reactions to a point where you go beyond the simple ability to not react badly to the situation but then also work to resolve the situation the best way you can.

Most problems are the result of previous solutions...

All comment's I make are my own personal opinion and do not in any way, shape or form reflect the views of current or former employers unless specifically stated

MikeB4

MikeB4
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#1198647 16-Dec-2014 20:52

heylinb4nz: some light reading here

http://www.salemthesoldier.us/gun_control_personalities.html

What a load of bilge strikes me of being scribed by someone who flies the confederate flag and goes yeeehaaaa

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

heylinb4nz

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#1198648 16-Dec-2014 20:52

KiwiNZ:
andrewNZ:
KiwiNZ: Hunting is no longer a valid reason to own a firearm.

I cannot tell you how much i disagree with this. In fact I'd say there is a far stronger case for hunting than target shooting. There is no more "need" to shoot targets than there I to hunt, but hunting typically has other benefits.

I said that being a person you spent a big chunk of my youth chasing Goat, Sika and other Deer, Rabbit shooting and being scared whitless by pigs.These days there is too many people in the bush and less places to hunt in safety not to mention there is too many cowboys who are just interested in blasting away at anything.

What about private land with rabbits and other pests ? would you begrudge them hunting ??

Is there any other activity you would like us to stop doing to make you FEEL better ?

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