PSA: Protest Action blocking roads in Wellington may start again from Monday 28th August

Forums › Off topic › PSA: Protest Action blocking roads in Wellington may start again from Monday 28th August

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MikeB4
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#3122106 31-Aug-2023 09:17

alasta:

I see they are at it again this morning.

The government really needs to crack down on this sort of behaviour. A good start would be to cut their benefits and refuse ACC and public health system treatment for their self inflicted injuries.

No, just no. That is not what we are in Aotearoa

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

alasta

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#3122112 31-Aug-2023 09:31

Sorry, I forgot that we turn a blind eye to crime and anti-social behaviour because "she'll be right".

jonathan18

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#3122113 31-Aug-2023 09:34

alasta:

I see they are at it again this morning.

The government really needs to crack down on this sort of behaviour. A good start would be to cut their benefits and refuse ACC and public health system treatment for their self inflicted injuries.

Again on the stereotypes. Still waiting to see your evidence the protestors are 'dole bludgers'.

MikeB4

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#3122114 31-Aug-2023 09:42

alasta:
Sorry, I forgot that we turn a blind eye to crime and anti-social behaviour because "she'll be right".

We don't turn off human rights because we don't agree with someone.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

SJB

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#3122119 31-Aug-2023 10:09

IMO we tend to tolerate or support this sort of direct action if we sympathise with the cause and object to it if we don't.

Simple human nature.

MikeAqua

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#3122130 31-Aug-2023 10:36

SaltyNZ:

Unfortunately, true. With bonus interview with James Shaw introducing the maps showing the expected effects of sea level rise across the country.

The tyre extinguishers activities have two possible outcomes that are seriously concerning: -

1) A serious accident, keeping in mind that many SUV owners have large families.

2) A violent confrontation, keeping in mind that many people who own utes and SUVs are in it for the headroom and are quite large gentlemen

Another issue is that if a vehicle (especially a heavy one) is run deflated, the rim can wreck the tyre wall. As well as being expensive (again the SUV owner may be a large family) and emmitty to replace, that tyre then has to be disposed of, which can also be emmitty.

Personally, I have an onboard compressor in my SUV. When I deflate the tyres by 50% for beach launching it takes less than five minutes to reinflate them all to full pressure. I would guess two minutes to inflate from dead flat to full pressure. And, of course, the energy to reinflate would be produced by the engine - which runs on diesel🤣.

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alasta

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#3122147 31-Aug-2023 10:49

jonathan18:

alasta:

I see they are at it again this morning.

The government really needs to crack down on this sort of behaviour. A good start would be to cut their benefits and refuse ACC and public health system treatment for their self inflicted injuries.

Again on the stereotypes. Still waiting to see your evidence the protestors are 'dole bludgers'.

Back in 2019 I lived in a multi unit dwelling in Buckley Road, Wellington. I was eventually forced out by upstairs neighbours who had large gatherings with excessive noise, blocked the driveway and threw empty alcohol bottles onto the pathway to my unit. They were clearly unemployed because they were constantly drunk or high on drugs. One day I came home and they had an old wrecked bright pink car and boat in the driveway and I was wondering what they were going to do with them. The following day they went into town with their mates and used the car and boat to block city streets, before disrupting traffic elsewhere and threatening the staff at a bank branch. This went on basically all day.

Now, it may not necessarily be the same people involved in these latest attacks, but you can see why I have a dim view of people who behave like this after they drove me out of my home of seven years.

There is also the consideration that a criminal record is a serious impediment to employment. Why would you gratuitously give yourself a criminal conviction if you had any intention of getting a job?

We really should have taken the same approach to crime as we did with covid; go hard and go early. Now the genie is out of the bottle and it's going to be very difficult to stuff it back in.

GV27

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#3122148 31-Aug-2023 10:50

SaltyNZ:

The wider answer to that question is that we have to claw back manufacturing from China. We spent thirty years moving all our factories there - which is a big part of why they have a worse emissions profile than we do; because they're building all our stuff for us - so that giant corporations could charge the same amount of money and pocket a larger profit. But then, COVID. Proving why that was always a dumb idea, we can look ahead to a likely conflict over Taiwan that will make the COVID supply-chain shocks feel like the truck got stuck in traffic.

The US has begun to address that with Biden's various related bills that incentivise manufacturers back to the US. But everyone needs to start doing it. It's better for the environment (less transport) and it's better for global security (China no longer has everyone else by the balls).

Then that raises the question becomes how do we power whole industries on top of the ones we're already trying to decarbonise? The answer at some point has to be a mature conversation about the N word.

No, not that one. The other one.

alasta

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#3122153 31-Aug-2023 10:53

MikeAqua:

2) A violent confrontation, keeping in mind that many people who own utes and SUVs are in it for the headroom and are quite large gentlemen

This is my biggest concern. Given the level of aggression in society these days, it's only a matter of time before someone uses violence against people causing the traffic disruption. Then, there will inevitably be retribution and the situation will spiral out of control very quickly.

Personally, I have an onboard compressor in my SUV. When I deflate the tyres by 50% for beach launching it takes less than five minutes to reinflate them all to full pressure. I would guess two minutes to inflate from dead flat to full pressure. And, of course, the energy to reinflate would be produced by the engine - which runs on diesel🤣.

How much does one of those cost? Does it just plug into the 12v outlet? It sounds like a useful thing to invest in.

SaltyNZ

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#3122154 31-Aug-2023 10:54

MikeAqua:

The tyre extinguishers activities have two possible outcomes that are seriously concerning: -

Yes. I think there's a fairly clear distinction between "inconveniencing the public on public property" and "damaging private property". Of course it is already illegal to damage private (or public) property so there is no need for some special law. If your society is having such a problem with protestors that a special law becomes necessary, it isn't the protestors that are the problem. It's the society.

And again that's not to say that protestors should always expect their actions to be free of consequences. You should expect the police to drag you off the road if you're making too much of a nuisance. If you're not prepared to cope with that outcome you don't really believe in your cause. However you should not expect the police to roll up, run you over in a ute, and then drag your corpse off the road.

Having said that, though, letting people's tires down is at the low end 'damage'. You're not going to get far with four flat tires before you notice something is wrong even if you got into the car without noticing the tires. I certainly don't see anyone managing to accelerate to such a high speed on more than one flat tire that they would have a seriously dangerous accident. Anybody that oblivious to conditions would've Darwined themselves in a month of getting their license.

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MikeB4

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#3122155 31-Aug-2023 10:57

alasta:

How much does one of those cost? Does it just plug into the 12v outlet? It sounds like a useful thing to invest in.

Several of our vehicles have had them including our current one. They take a long time to inflate a tyre. They are good for topping up a tyre. They can only be used in short bursts as they can overheat and die.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

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SaltyNZ

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#3122156 31-Aug-2023 10:58

alasta:

How much does one of those cost? Does it just plug into the 12v outlet? It sounds like a useful thing to invest in.

We got one free with our Leaf ... yes, very useful, great for sports balls etc. I've never actually used it for a tire, though. Mind you it's for emergency use so it's not exactly massive: you'd be sitting around for a while waiting for it to inflate four of them. Took about 20 minutes to do one of those Swiss ball things once. Yes, plugs into 12V outlet.

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SaltyNZ

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#3122168 31-Aug-2023 11:17

GV27:

Then that raises the question becomes how do we power whole industries on top of the ones we're already trying to decarbonise? The answer at some point has to be a mature conversation about the N word.

No, not that one. The other one.

I don't think New Zealand specifically needs to worry about that. We've got enough hydro* that wind and solar can make up the rest. Especially when the demands from Tiwai Point finally just get too outrageous to put up with and Rio Tinto throws their toys and closes it down. But some other places, yes.

*The caveat being that we don't lose too much rainfall as the climate warms. IIRC current models predict NZ would get a little more rainy rather than less.

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gzt

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#3122183 31-Aug-2023 12:12

GV27: My genuine question is though - how do you begin to address this. Like even getting solar panels is an ethical minefield. If we want access globally to that level of solar panel supply, the current supply chain would need to go into overdrive. But that would mean more manufacturing in countries that have a worse emissions profile than we do,

Solar price per watt continues to drop amazingly - the supply chains continue to ramp. The assumption that manufacturing in other countries has a higher emissions profile is not necessarily true.

Moving on from there to speculation, the countries that need and want to develop industry and jobs often have very low emissions profiles, but many other daily concerns.

jonathan18

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#3122321 31-Aug-2023 16:40

alasta:

Back in 2019 I lived in a multi unit dwelling in Buckley Road, Wellington. I was eventually forced out by upstairs neighbours who had large gatherings with excessive noise, blocked the driveway and threw empty alcohol bottles onto the pathway to my unit. They were clearly unemployed because they were constantly drunk or high on drugs. One day I came home and they had an old wrecked bright pink car and boat in the driveway and I was wondering what they were going to do with them. The following day they went into town with their mates and used the car and boat to block city streets, before disrupting traffic elsewhere and threatening the staff at a bank branch. This went on basically all day.

Now, it may not necessarily be the same people involved in these latest attacks, but you can see why I have a dim view of people who behave like this after they drove me out of my home of seven years.

Do you think it may be possible that the motivations between these two groups are completely different? That just because they share some similar characteristics of behaviour that they may not share other apects such as their employment status?

I get that we do draw conclusions based on our prior knowledge and exposure, but surely you can read what you’ve written above and see you’ve made some astoundingly wide generalisations to conflate these groups. While I know I won’t change your mind on this issue overall, but feel I still need to make these points…

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