PSA: Protest Action blocking roads in Wellington may start again from Monday 28th August

Forums › Off topic › PSA: Protest Action blocking roads in Wellington may start again from Monday 28th August

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#3122566 1-Sep-2023 10:36

MikeB4:

Wombat1:

They not 'legally' protesting. They causing a nuisance.

Dame Whina Cooper marched the length of Te Ika-a-Maui (North Island) on state highway one would you describe this action the same?

Your mindset Mike is why NZ is facing problems like this right now. This is about the climate change illegal protestors, I won't be falling into your straw man fallacy trap.

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#3122567 1-Sep-2023 10:37

Wombat1:

MikeB4:

For those denigrating these folks that are protesting without knowing them, ask yourself would apply this denigration to Dame Whina Cooper, Joe Hawke, Fernando Pereira?

They not 'legally' protesting. They causing a nuisance.

All those above were causing a nuisance too. So was Rosa Parks. So was Ghandi. So were the suffragettes. The nuisance is the point of a protest.

As Mario Savio said: "There is a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious, makes you so sick at heart, that you can't take part! You can't even passively take part! And you've got to put your bodies upon the gears and upon the wheels ... upon the levers, upon all the apparatus, and you've got to make it stop! And you've got to indicate to the people who run it, to the people who own it, that unless you're free, the machine will be prevented from working at all!"

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alasta

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#3122571 1-Sep-2023 10:44

So now anyone can break the law by dressing it up as a protest?

Wombat1

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#3122573 1-Sep-2023 10:50

alasta:

So now anyone can break the law by dressing it up as a protest?

I guess the US capitol protestors had the right to protest and cause disruption too? Same argument as freedom fighter / terrorist.

Law is the law. its there for a reason. Illegal protesting should not be tolerated, go soft on it and things will get far worse as somebody said previously.

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#3122578 1-Sep-2023 10:56

So every law is just. All of them. Everywhere ?

“The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.” -John Kenneth Galbraith

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alasta

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#3122580 1-Sep-2023 10:57

The law that says you can't glue yourself to a road seems pretty reasonable to me.

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Wombat1

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#3122584 1-Sep-2023 11:01

alasta:

The law that says you can't glue yourself to a road seems pretty reasonable to me.

They have done it in NSW.

Labor helps pass NSW bill targeting road-blocking protesters despite union opposition | New South Wales politics | The Guardian

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#3122585 1-Sep-2023 11:02

Wombat1:

alasta:

The law that says you can't glue yourself to a road seems pretty reasonable to me.

They have done it in NSW.

Labor helps pass NSW bill targeting road-blocking protesters despite union opposition | New South Wales politics | The Guardian

IMHO thats nothing to be proud of.

“The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.” -John Kenneth Galbraith

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Wombat1

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#3122590 1-Sep-2023 11:06

rb99:

IMHO thats nothing to be proud of.

Its targeting only illegal protests. Nothing unreasonable about it.

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#3122593 1-Sep-2023 11:08

Until somebody important decides to make the presently legal illegal.

And presumably it was legal till they made it illegal, otherwise why legislate...

( Yes I probably should actually read that article...)

“The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.” -John Kenneth Galbraith

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#3122596 1-Sep-2023 11:10

Wombat1:

Your mindset Mike is why NZ is facing problems like this right now. This is about the climate change illegal protestors, I won't be falling into your straw man fallacy trap.

My comments are valid. Read back through the thread and you will be seeing comments denigrating the protestors. I was highlighting other folks who have protested on our roads in Aotearoa and ask would they apply the same denigration to those protestors.

As for your remark about my mindset I have no idea what you are referring to, could elucidate please?

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

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SaltyNZ

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#3122599 1-Sep-2023 11:12

Wombat1:

alasta:

So now anyone can break the law by dressing it up as a protest?

I guess the US capitol protestors had the right to protest and cause disruption too? Same argument as freedom fighter / terrorist.

Law is the law. its there for a reason. Illegal protesting should not be tolerated, go soft on it and things will get far worse as somebody said previously.

If you're not prepared to suffer consequences for your protest, you don't believe in it. Do I think the capitol protestors were at best a bunch of deluded muppets? Yes. Do I believe they had a right to protest? Yes.

Am I outraged that people who smashed their way into the capitol and attacked a bunch of people are now being handed down 17 year sentences? That's a tougher one, and it's where your whole everything-is-black-and-white attitude simply falls apart.

I'm not outraged, really, but that's at least partly because my judgement is coloured by the fact that they were at best a bunch of deluded muppets, who, had they somehow magically succeeded, would have brought about the end of the rule of law in the country with largest military and economy on the planet. Just as yours is coloured by the fact that you think being 20 minutes late to work is more important than the effects of climate change.

But it's also not at all relevant to the issue here because the rail protestors are not doing anything like that. They're sitting in the road and hanging up banners. They may even be singing kumbaya for all I know.

Get back to me when they become white supremacists brandishing AR-15s and committing lethal assault.

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MikeB4

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#3122600 1-Sep-2023 11:14

Wombat1:

They have done it in NSW.

Labor helps pass NSW bill targeting road-blocking protesters despite union opposition | New South Wales politics | The Guardian

If you cannot question or hold your government to account you do not have a democracy

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

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#3122602 1-Sep-2023 11:15

If they break the law by blocking a road, they should be arrested and removed. If they are let off with a warning and do it again they should be re-arrested and dealt with more severely as has been the case with the person who just received a short sharp custodial sentence. In this regard the system appears to be working.

Wombat1

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#3122603 1-Sep-2023 11:18

SaltyNZ:

If you're not prepared to suffer consequences for your protest, you don't believe in it. Do I think the capitol protestors were at best a bunch of deluded muppets? Yes. Do I believe they had a right to protest? Yes.

Do they have the right to riot?

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