Slaughter of Innocents

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#1199065 17-Dec-2014 13:00

Geektastic:
wasabi2k: Conflating militant extremists with all religion is utterly ridiculous.

Grouping all muslims with militant extremists is ridiculous.

Saying we should get rid of religion because of the actions of a militant group is ridiculous in the extreme.

This attack is utterly reprehensible and shows how these extremist groups are encouraging and endorsing medieval beliefs. The murder and torture of innocents should be an artifact of ancient times. It is sad this it is happening today.

It is unfortunate that terrorism and guerilla warfare is how battles are fought in modern times.

ANY religion can - and without many exceptions has - throw up militant extremists. It's not a Muslim/non Muslim thing, although they probably get the award for 'Most Nutters In A Religion' at the moment.

Get off your soapbox mate, people who want to do these things will justify it somehow, be it religion, entitlement, shame, anger etc. As Wasabi2k said above, it is not really religion that drives this. It is driven by something much darker and just committed in the name of "religion". Non religious groups also get on perfectly well with killing people who they disagree with. Not to put too fine a point on it, but you seem to be missing the irony here, you said we should get rid of these type of people without trial or pity and we should get rid of religion entirely. Should we hold you up for your extremist view?

Try Vultr using this link and get us both some credit:

http://www.vultr.com/?ref=7033587-3B

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#1199069 17-Dec-2014 13:03

DarthKermit: Religious fanatics (of any kind) are dangerous and evil.

Makes me glad to live in a country like NZ where we don't murder each other over our religious and political differences.

Fanatics are dangerous be they Religious or what ever.

This story sickens and saddens me, where is this planet heading?

I am strongly of the believe that we are in WW3 and it is a very dangerous War for the survival of enlightenment.

Geektastic

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#1199073 17-Dec-2014 13:08

frankv:
Geektastic:
SaltyNZ:
Geektastic: There are some groups of people in the world who, if they were cells in your body, doctors would cut them out and destroy them to preserve the rest of you.

I err towards terminating people like this with extreme prejudice. No trial, no lawyers. Just a quiet bullet in the night.

Kinda like what they did to all those kids, huh?

Nope. The kids were innocent. The perps are not.

As soon as you accept the premise of killing people without needing to justify it (no trial), you're on the slippery slope.

If you accept that some particular end exists which will justify killing people, you're not that different from the CIA (and Bush and Cheney, the US Govt, and anyone else in the USA who accepts what they did), nor from the "perps".

I have no problem not being that different from the CIA to be honest.

There's no need to establish the guilt of people who murder over 100 children. Some things are obvious.

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#1199080 17-Dec-2014 13:17

This happens all the time. Somehow it made it to our news this time.

Think - Nigeria, Kenya. Pol Pot, the list keeps going

Very sad

Geektastic

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#1199082 17-Dec-2014 13:17

paulmilbank:
Geektastic:
wasabi2k: Conflating militant extremists with all religion is utterly ridiculous.

Grouping all muslims with militant extremists is ridiculous.

Saying we should get rid of religion because of the actions of a militant group is ridiculous in the extreme.

This attack is utterly reprehensible and shows how these extremist groups are encouraging and endorsing medieval beliefs. The murder and torture of innocents should be an artifact of ancient times. It is sad this it is happening today.

It is unfortunate that terrorism and guerilla warfare is how battles are fought in modern times.

ANY religion can - and without many exceptions has - throw up militant extremists. It's not a Muslim/non Muslim thing, although they probably get the award for 'Most Nutters In A Religion' at the moment.

Get off your soapbox mate, people who want to do these things will justify it somehow, be it religion, entitlement, shame, anger etc. As Wasabi2k said above, it is not really religion that drives this. It is driven by something much darker and just committed in the name of "religion". Non religious groups also get on perfectly well with killing people who they disagree with. Not to put too fine a point on it, but you seem to be missing the irony here, you said we should get rid of these type of people without trial or pity and we should get rid of religion entirely. Should we hold you up for your extremist view?

You're welcome to have a go.

As long as people believe some imaginary being for which absolutely no evidence exists told them to do things, humanity has no chance.

It's obviously not the case that banning religion will stop random violence. It obviously is the case that not all those who commit violent acts in the name of religion would have done so had they not been indoctrinated by their religious 'leaders' every weekend. Much of it was driven by the Popes who orchestrated the Crusades in the name of religion.

Much of it is driven by religion in the case of Islam - whole segments of Muslims believe that their holy book tells them that it is their divine duty to allow us infidels a chance to join them, and to kill us if we refuse. Mix that with nutters and hey presto.

As the tee shirt says "Science flies you to the moon: religion flies you into buildings."

toyonut

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#1199083 17-Dec-2014 13:18

That story makes me really sad. No religion justifies the slaughter of others and the devaluing of human life. Those who preach this stuff are always on the fringe, picking passages to support their views and against the flow of their respective religions. I'm no expert, but I guarantee Islam condemns this just like Christianity does just like other religions would too. *EDIT* Just like non religious people would be too. Nothing justifies killing kids in cold blood.

Try Vultr using this link and get us both some credit:

http://www.vultr.com/?ref=7033587-3B

DarthKermit

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#1199182 17-Dec-2014 14:34

KiwiNZ:
DarthKermit: Religious fanatics (of any kind) are dangerous and evil.

Makes me glad to live in a country like NZ where we don't murder each other over our religious and political differences.

Fanatics are dangerous be they Religious or what ever.

This story sickens and saddens me, where is this planet heading?

I am strongly of the believe that we are in WW3 and it is a very dangerous War for the survival of enlightenment.

Possibly we are. At this point in history, there have never been more people on Earth competing for fewer and fewer resources, and with ever increasing amounts of pollution and contamination.

I am glad that I don't have children with the way the world is seemingly headed.

Whatifthespacekeyhadneverbeeninvented?

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heylinb4nz

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#1199268 17-Dec-2014 15:48

"As the tee shirt says "Science flies you to the moon: religion flies you into buildings.""

Links please.....mez wantz.

MikeAqua

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#1199269 17-Dec-2014 15:49

These people are violent thugs. Religion is simply the tool used to motivate them. And it's never truly about religion to the leaders ... money, power, control etc.

If they weren't killing in the name of religion, they would be killing for another reason.

A quick read of history will show plenty of people have been just as brutal in the name of political ideology, facism, racism, narcotics, money ... even democracy.

In the UK animals rights activists have committed bombings and arson.

Mike

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#1199273 17-Dec-2014 15:57

networkn: Along with all the evil committed in the world, a great deal of good has been done in the name of God and Religion (Charity has it's roots in religion).

Sorry, but disagree. This is similar to some religious people claiming religion defines moral and atheists have no morals because of lack of believe in a God.

Charity can be done without religion involved, doesn't require religion and can be a natural thing even for someone without a religious upbring.

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#1199304 17-Dec-2014 16:22

freitasm:
networkn: Along with all the evil committed in the world, a great deal of good has been done in the name of God and Religion (Charity has it's roots in religion).

Sorry, but disagree. This is similar to some religious people claiming religion defines moral and atheists have no morals because of lack of believe in a God.

Charity can be done without religion involved, doesn't require religion and can be a natural thing even for someone without a religious upbring.

I agree. Even our closest living relatives display these characteristics and do not have a religion. But I disagree with the attacks on religion in general. In any case the victims and the perpetrators were both members of the same religion so as an explanation for everything this one has a long way to go.

MikeB4

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#1199309 17-Dec-2014 16:29

freitasm:
networkn: Along with all the evil committed in the world, a great deal of good has been done in the name of God and Religion (Charity has it's roots in religion).

Sorry, but disagree. This is similar to some religious people claiming religion defines moral and atheists have no morals because of lack of believe in a God.

Charity can be done without religion involved, doesn't require religion and can be a natural thing even for someone without a religious upbring.

Charity does not need religion but charity often occurs because of someones religious belief and that is a good thing.

Hammerer

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#1199628 18-Dec-2014 07:31

Geektastic: Religion is the last great nonsense we need to get rid of.

How adults can believe such patent drivel is quite beyond me - much less how that drivel can be counted adequate reason to cut someone's head off or blow up a bus etc.

We should start by removing all state privilege for religion and all references to it in anthems, oaths etc etc.

Your comments seem to show great ignorance.

You fail to understand the situation with Moslem/Islamic terrorists if you think that this is a religious issue. There are strong religious and philosphical drivers but this is still, as is other forms of terrorism, primarily political.

It is easier to classify Moslem/Islamic terrorists as purely religious because they don't use the same concepts or categories as we do in European civilization. They don't have or see any need for religious and political separation.

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#1199648 18-Dec-2014 08:00

debate on religion huh - last time I checked Wikipedia says religion =
beliefs, cultural systems, and world views that relate humanity to an order of existence

that includes atheism
flying spaghetti monster

what geektastic wants to rid is extremism.

as I said the world is full of violence. whether someone reads it from a book or joins a gang or forms a drug cartel or starts a coup or take arms to fight the end result is the same. yes one of them may have a root in a so called religion [note there are other books too you know, like Machiavellian which is non religious] but ridding religion still does not rid the other causes of violence.

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#1199665 18-Dec-2014 08:51

MikeAqua: These people are violent thugs. Religion is simply the tool used to motivate them. And it's never truly about religion to the leaders ... money, power, control etc.

If they weren't killing in the name of religion, they would be killing for another reason.

A quick read of history will show plenty of people have been just as brutal in the name of political ideology, facism, racism, narcotics, money ... even democracy.

In the UK animals rights activists have committed bombings and arson.

I think that just labelling them as thugs, and saying that they'd kill for any other reason, is simplistic.

When you screw someone over enough, they *will* fight back. If they can't fight you head-on, they will employ covert/underhand tactics. We don't know how much this particular group has been screwed over by the Pakistani hierarchy, who the attack seems to be aimed at.

Let's not forget that the current Israeli leaders were "terrorists" in the late 1940s, and are now repressing Palestinians, who are now fighting back with (who'd have guessed it) terrorism. Similarly Nelson Mandela and the ANC were "terrorists" when they were fighting apartheid, and then morphed into "peacemakers". Ho Chi Minh was another. The Chinese government still considers the Taiwanese to be "terrorists". The Kurds are labelled that way by the Turks. Northern Ireland is/was another example. The resistance in various countries during WW2. The hacker underground vs Sony/RIAA.

It's amazing how the terrorism and killing stops once people are treated reasonably, and allowed a political voice and a say in their future. So long as regimes find it preferable to repress and ignore than to listen and consider, "terrorism" will continue.

http://unix.cc.wmich.edu/~cooneys/poems/cummings.ygUDuh.html is eerily relevant.

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