City Rail Link

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#1564460 2-Jun-2016 18:38

Sam91:

DjShadow:

I think the next phase will be building the railway across to the shore which would tie into that rail loop

I see where you're coming from but I don't think it is necessary. The busway works really well at the moment, even better since the addition of more double deckers. As for the future, simply add more buses to the network as the demand increases.

The problem is at the terminus in the CBD. Buses just can't scale. Even with the HOP card speeding up boarding (though almost 25% still pay cash and slow everyone down) a bus with 60 people can't load / unload as quickly as a train can load and unload 1,000 people. Buses need roads in the CBD and places to stop / dwell. A train wouldn't need any space above ground at all.

It takes years to build this stuff. The worst time to start is 2 years after it became obvious you should have started a decade ago......though that is how NZ typically does infrastructure.

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#1564465 2-Jun-2016 18:47

tdgeek:

Why am I paying for it? I live in ChCh. The cost is paid nationwide.

Because that's the way it works in this country. I don't live in Christchurch nor Auckland, yet I contributed toward the Chch rebuild and will contribute toward this new rail-link. I don't begrudge it, it's for the greater good.

Sometimes I use big words I don't always fully understand in an effort to make myself sound more photosynthesis.

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#1564470 2-Jun-2016 18:53

floydbloke:

tdgeek:

Why am I paying for it? I live in ChCh. The cost is paid nationwide.

Because that's the way it works in this country. I don't live in Christchurch nor Auckland, yet I contributed toward the Chch rebuild and will contribute toward this new rail-link. I don't begrudge it, it's for the greater good.

Hmm.ok. Not sure. How did you contribute to the rebuild?

floydbloke

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#1564474 2-Jun-2016 18:57

tdgeek:

floydbloke:

tdgeek:

Why am I paying for it? I live in ChCh. The cost is paid nationwide.

Because that's the way it works in this country. I don't live in Christchurch nor Auckland, yet I contributed toward the Chch rebuild and will contribute toward this new rail-link. I don't begrudge it, it's for the greater good.

Hmm.ok. Not sure. How did you contribute to the rebuild?

I pay tax.

Sometimes I use big words I don't always fully understand in an effort to make myself sound more photosynthesis.

Jase2985

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#1564482 2-Jun-2016 19:05

tdgeek:

floydbloke:

tdgeek:

Why am I paying for it? I live in ChCh. The cost is paid nationwide.

Because that's the way it works in this country. I don't live in Christchurch nor Auckland, yet I contributed toward the Chch rebuild and will contribute toward this new rail-link. I don't begrudge it, it's for the greater good.

Hmm.ok. Not sure. How did you contribute to the rebuild?

pretty cure the CCC isnt paying for the entire rebuild

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#1564484 2-Jun-2016 19:09

floydbloke:

tdgeek:

floydbloke:

tdgeek:

Why am I paying for it? I live in ChCh. The cost is paid nationwide.

Because that's the way it works in this country. I don't live in Christchurch nor Auckland, yet I contributed toward the Chch rebuild and will contribute toward this new rail-link. I don't begrudge it, it's for the greater good.

Hmm.ok. Not sure. How did you contribute to the rebuild?

I pay tax.

Agree. Although the "tax:" is nt what paid for the ChCh rebuild, it is the EQC levy (which is a tax) Its a national insurance policy on an EQ event. Happens in SI as in Inungahua, ChCh, and elsewhere, eventually to be the alpine fault. Also in NI i.e. Napier, Edgecumbe. Thats a tax (mores an insurance policy tax) that covers us all. We are on the Ring Of Fire. When Ayers Rock gets a decent shake that reminds us we are all at risk, hence a national not, AKL, EQC levy

The AKL rail network does not help or cover us all. It should be local funded and paying for itself.

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#1564487 2-Jun-2016 19:09

Jase2985:

tdgeek:

floydbloke:

tdgeek:

Why am I paying for it? I live in ChCh. The cost is paid nationwide.

Because that's the way it works in this country. I don't live in Christchurch nor Auckland, yet I contributed toward the Chch rebuild and will contribute toward this new rail-link. I don't begrudge it, it's for the greater good.

Hmm.ok. Not sure. How did you contribute to the rebuild?

pretty cure the CCC isnt paying for the entire rebuild

Its not, the EQC national levy is, i.e. the national insurance policy for EQ events.

Jase2985

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#1564490 2-Jun-2016 19:19

tdgeek:

Jase2985:

tdgeek:

floydbloke:

tdgeek:

Why am I paying for it? I live in ChCh. The cost is paid nationwide.

Because that's the way it works in this country. I don't live in Christchurch nor Auckland, yet I contributed toward the Chch rebuild and will contribute toward this new rail-link. I don't begrudge it, it's for the greater good.

Hmm.ok. Not sure. How did you contribute to the rebuild?

pretty cure the CCC isnt paying for the entire rebuild

Its not, the EQC national levy is, i.e. the national insurance policy for EQ events.

oh really?

think you need to do a bit more reading as its not all coming out of EQC levy's and insurance

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#1564494 2-Jun-2016 19:24

Jase2985:

tdgeek:

Jase2985:

tdgeek:

floydbloke:

tdgeek:

Why am I paying for it? I live in ChCh. The cost is paid nationwide.

Because that's the way it works in this country. I don't live in Christchurch nor Auckland, yet I contributed toward the Chch rebuild and will contribute toward this new rail-link. I don't begrudge it, it's for the greater good.

Hmm.ok. Not sure. How did you contribute to the rebuild?

pretty cure the CCC isnt paying for the entire rebuild

Its not, the EQC national levy is, i.e. the national insurance policy for EQ events.

oh really?

think you need to do a bit more reading as its not all coming out of EQC levy's and insurance

EQC was circa 15 -17 billion. Business insurance covers business. Maybe my post implied all, but businesses can look after themselves

Jase2985

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#1564496 2-Jun-2016 19:26

no it wasnt

"Earthquake Recovery Minister Gerry Brownlee frequently mentions the headline figure of a $16.5 billion Crown contribution to Canterbury, although half of that is insurance payouts from the Earthquake Commission (EQC)."

http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/business/the-rebuild/70084887/How-much-is-the-Government-really-spending-to-fix-Christchurch

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#1564512 2-Jun-2016 19:41

Jase2985:

no it wasnt

"Earthquake Recovery Minister Gerry Brownlee frequently mentions the headline figure of a $16.5 billion Crown contribution to Canterbury, although half of that is insurance payouts from the Earthquake Commission (EQC)."

http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/business/the-rebuild/70084887/How-much-is-the-Government-really-spending-to-fix-Christchurch

Ok, 13 billion

As of April 2012 the EQC has paid out NZ$3 billion in claims for both earthquakes, and expects to pay a further $9 billion, which will completely deplete their funds and may require a further NZ$1 billion from the government.[12]

But as per the OP, its a national levy for a national event unlike AKL transport issues.

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Jase2985

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#1564517 2-Jun-2016 19:46

the chch earthquake is as much a national event as aucklands transport is.

at the end of the day tax payers are paying for both.

tdgeek

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#1564520 2-Jun-2016 19:50

Jase2985:

the chch earthquake is as much a national event as aucklands transport is.

at the end of the day tax payers are paying for both.

Do you pay an EQC levy on house insurance? Yes

Do you or I both pay a levy for AKL transport? I don't. Or is the Govt paying for it?

Sam91

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#1564525 2-Jun-2016 19:57

Linuxluver:

Sam91:

DjShadow:

I think the next phase will be building the railway across to the shore which would tie into that rail loop

I see where you're coming from but I don't think it is necessary. The busway works really well at the moment, even better since the addition of more double deckers. As for the future, simply add more buses to the network as the demand increases.

The problem is at the terminus in the CBD. Buses just can't scale. Even with the HOP card speeding up boarding (though almost 25% still pay cash and slow everyone down) a bus with 60 people can't load / unload as quickly as a train can load and unload 1,000 people. Buses need roads in the CBD and places to stop / dwell. A train wouldn't need any space above ground at all.

It takes years to build this stuff. The worst time to start is 2 years after it became obvious you should have started a decade ago......though that is how NZ typically does infrastructure.

I agree with you, but surely it is cheaper to build a dedicated bus loading area in the CBD than it is to build rail to the North Shore. I know you'd say that it's just cheaper in the short term. But wouldn't a dedicated bus loading area combined with the northern busway be adequate for the next few decades?

The buses load and empty extremely quickly on the Northern Express. I would say that less than 10% of passengers pay cash. If cash is such a problem, the cash option could be removed.

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#1564528 2-Jun-2016 20:01

tdgeek:

Jase2985:

the chch earthquake is as much a national event as aucklands transport is.

at the end of the day tax payers are paying for both.

Do you pay an EQC levy on house insurance? Yes

Do you or I both pay a levy for AKL transport? I don't. Or is the Govt paying for it?

https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/crown-and-council-agree-recovery-costs

Hasn't even touched on how much cash was handed out before that (in excess of EQC - eg buying out the AMI's nine digit shortfall), the new hospital, the new other hospital, ....

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