Stephen Fry Investigated for Criminal Blasphemy?

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#1777760 8-May-2017 13:42

sxz:

slingynz:

We have a similar law. http://legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1961/0043/latest/DLM329036.html

Wow!

At least we have a defense... (if you have 'decent language'):

"It is not an offence against this section to express in good faith and in decent language, or to attempt to establish by arguments used in good faith and conveyed in decent language, any opinion whatever on any religious subject."

Proving libel[edit]

There are several ways a person must go about proving that libel has taken place. For example, in the United States, the person must prove that the statement was false, caused harm, and was made without adequate research into the truthfulness of the statement. These steps are for an ordinary citizen. For a celebrity or a public official, the person must prove the first three steps and that the statement was made with the intent to do harm or with reckless disregard for the truth,[12] which is usually specifically referred to as "proving malice".[13]

Thus I am left wondering how anyone at all will prove a libel against a deity.

dafman

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#1777811 8-May-2017 14:30

I'm no believer, but if the big guy exists, being as he is reportedly the most powerful being in the universe, you'd think he'd be up to handling Mr Fry directly without any interference from this moronic member of the public.

sidefx

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#1777813 8-May-2017 14:34

dafman:

I'm no believer, but if the big guy exists, being as he is reportedly the most powerful being in the universe, you'd think he'd be up to handling Mr Fry directly without any interference from this moronic member of the public.

I don't disagree and my initial response was similar... On the other hand perhaps someone wants to get this some publicity to expose what sounds like a fairly silly law and perhaps get some support for getting rid of it?

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shk292

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#1777814 8-May-2017 14:34

Dratsab:

It could be worse!

There are better examples than that https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blasphemy_law_in_Saudi_Arabia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blasphemy_law_in_Iran

In 1987, the Federal Shariah Court revised the law to declare that blasphemy was punishable only with death and that no lighter punishment could be awarded. Accordingly, in 1990, the alternate punishment of life imprisonment was withdrawn, due to which death became the only penalty for the crime of blasphemy. This move opened up a floodgate for extremism and terrorism which the government was unable to subsequently control. The fact that the law is so vague—the clause ‘any imputation, innuendo, insinuation, directly and indirectly,’ can be interpreted in incredibly loose ways—means that all sorts of speech can be prosecuted under it. (http://www.reviewofreligions.org/5002/what-is-the-punishment-for-blasphemy-in-islam/) - which, combined with calls for the imposition of Sharia law in parts of the UK is quite worrying

Rikkitic

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#1777824 8-May-2017 14:51

So if I say that God is a self-pleasuring hermaphrodite, which It must be since It created men and women in It's own image, is that okay?

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

geocom

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#1777825 8-May-2017 14:51

For what its worth I started a petition for the removal of blasphemous libel yesterday. However I have been thinking of doing so for some time now.

If your interested please sign the petition below.

https://www.change.org/p/bill-english-repeal-blasphemous-libel-nz-crimes-act-pt-7-123

Geoff E

frankv

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#1777828 8-May-2017 14:58

shk292:

...calls for the imposition of Sharia law in parts of the UK is quite worrying

Who has called for that?

No rational person would consider that possible, so calls for it are laughable rather than worrying. It's like the Flat Earth Society calling for the abolition of satellites.

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#1777857 8-May-2017 15:06

If you can not adequately prove that God exists you can not prove Liable

shk292

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#1777891 8-May-2017 15:24

frankv:

shk292:

...calls for the imposition of Sharia law in parts of the UK is quite worrying

Who has called for that?

No rational person would consider that possible, so calls for it are laughable rather than worrying. It's like the Flat Earth Society calling for the abolition of satellites.

I'm sure your google works as well as mine, but here is one example: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/10716844/Islamic-law-is-adopted-by-British-legal-chiefs.html

and another: http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-16522447

So it may not be possible, and it may be laughable, but it seems to be happening

Geektastic

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#1777899 8-May-2017 15:35

frankv:

shk292:

...calls for the imposition of Sharia law in parts of the UK is quite worrying

Who has called for that?

No rational person would consider that possible, so calls for it are laughable rather than worrying. It's like the Flat Earth Society calling for the abolition of satellites.

There are already Sharia courts operating in the UK. Perhaps not operating full on stoning for adultery but it's certainly the thin end of the wedge.

See here for example.

frankv

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#1777922 8-May-2017 15:55

Normally, when I see a link that looks like "Islamic-law-is-adopted-by-British-legal-chiefs", I'll ignore it as click-bait. Which it is... "the British legal chiefs" in question are the Law Society, who have nothing to do with adopting or making law at all. All they're doing is modifying the way that wills, to be executed and applied under *British* law, are written to take into account the actual wishes (however inappropriate) of the person making the will.

Under ground-breaking guidance, produced by The Law Society, High Street solicitors will be able to write Islamic wills that deny women an equal share of inheritances and exclude unbelievers altogether.

As if, under existing law, they couldn't write a will that denied someone what they thought they were entitled to. [Yawn]

Equally, the BBC story... scare-mongering rather than clickbait:

The use of Sharia, or Islamic religious law, is growing in Britain, with thousands of Muslims using it to settle disputes each year, but women's groups and some others are objecting.

So, in reality, this is about people using their *common* religious principles to settle disputes and *avert* going through courts and the law. It's pretty common for Christians to accept advice and decisions from Christian church authorities to resolve their issues and disputes too. No-one, including women's groups, can be compelled to use Sharia law for anything.

There is no IMPOSITION of Sharia law.

dafman

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#1777937 8-May-2017 16:27

geocom:

For what its worth I started a petition for the removal of blasphemous libel yesterday. However I have been thinking of doing so for some time now.

If your interested please sign the petition below.

https://www.change.org/p/bill-english-repeal-blasphemous-libel-nz-crimes-act-pt-7-123

Signed.

Geektastic

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#1777940 8-May-2017 16:34

frankv:

Normally, when I see a link that looks like "Islamic-law-is-adopted-by-British-legal-chiefs", I'll ignore it as click-bait. Which it is... "the British legal chiefs" in question are the Law Society, who have nothing to do with adopting or making law at all. All they're doing is modifying the way that wills, to be executed and applied under *British* law, are written to take into account the actual wishes (however inappropriate) of the person making the will.

Under ground-breaking guidance, produced by The Law Society, High Street solicitors will be able to write Islamic wills that deny women an equal share of inheritances and exclude unbelievers altogether.

As if, under existing law, they couldn't write a will that denied someone what they thought they were entitled to. [Yawn]

Equally, the BBC story... scare-mongering rather than clickbait:

The use of Sharia, or Islamic religious law, is growing in Britain, with thousands of Muslims using it to settle disputes each year, but women's groups and some others are objecting.

So, in reality, this is about people using their *common* religious principles to settle disputes and *avert* going through courts and the law. It's pretty common for Christians to accept advice and decisions from Christian church authorities to resolve their issues and disputes too. No-one, including women's groups, can be compelled to use Sharia law for anything.

There is no IMPOSITION of Sharia law.

Yet.

shk292

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#1777956 8-May-2017 17:27

So, two accounts from very reputable news organisations showing how Sharia law is creeping into UK society, and some still believe that it is "laughable" and "not possible" for there to be any call for Sharia law in the UK. What was that about flat earth?

frankv

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#1778205 9-May-2017 07:20

shk292:

So, two accounts from very reputable news organisations showing how Sharia law is creeping into UK society, and some still believe that it is "laughable" and "not possible" for there to be any call for Sharia law in the UK. What was that about flat earth?

What was laughable was this:

shk292:

...calls for the imposition of Sharia law in parts of the UK is quite worrying

The two quoted news reports don't support that at all; that is quite different from "Sharia law is creeping into UK society". Rather, they show that British society is changing and adapting, as it has done for millennia.

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