Gamechangers - Meat Doco

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#2355053 17-Nov-2019 10:54

"So the strongman isn't on a plant based diet? How can Ox and Rhino get so big and strong? AFAIK we all need protein but if the protein is via plants and not vis plants to animals to food, its better? Would a diet based mainly on meat be better?"

Ox, Rhino and Gorillas have evolved to process plant derived protein - and they have to eat a SH*TELOAD of it to survive and thrive.

We haven't.

So while I found Game Changers interesting - the fundamental comment re "cut out the middle man" ignores the role that evolution and our digestive system plays. I also couldn't help but think for every example of a top athlete that is plant based - there would be literally thousands who aren't.

That said most of us eat too much meat (me incl) and should eat more plant based food - esp so given the other dis-benefits of meat e.g. cardiac disease, cancers etc.

And if plant based meat replacements become as tasty and nearly as cost effective as meat - I would be open to moving to this from a philosophical POV as well.

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#2355054 17-Nov-2019 10:58

Beccara:

Anythings possible but for me it's about time, every single non-meat eater I know spends huge amounts of their day thinking/buying/preping their food in order to remain healthy, Quite a few commented how hard it was to keep up iron levels and many supplemented with protein powders at-least once a week , Compared to myself some of them were spending 5-6x the amount of time involved with their diet. You really can't beat meat as something that you can easily create and consume year round as a good source of protein that makes up a balanced diet.

Rhino's spend upto 1/2 of their waking hours eating and the rest wallowing, Gorilla's spend 1/3 of their day eating and 1/3 forging with the rest sleeping and mild actives.

Thats correct. But the doco, or veganism isnt suggesting that you eat 12 hours a day. You need carbs for energy, thats rice and potato as two obvious examples. For example you get heme iron from meat, easily absorbed, you get non heme iron from plants not easily absorbed. So, if its desirable to avoid meat for heat health, cholesterol etc reasons, take iron supplements.

My mate goes on these fads frequently. Exercise/vege then its back to burgers and beers! But in this he out me onto a coulee of things, so I researched berocca, iron, and omega 3 supplements. Thats lead me to an array of really interesting info on health. Meat, non meat, etc. I'll research more on this. Im not considering being a vegan fanatic, I just want to be clearer on risk factors I can mitigate, and other beneficial factors I can include, without looking for a "wonder diet in 3 easy steps"

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#2355057 17-Nov-2019 11:03

driller2000:

"So the strongman isn't on a plant based diet? How can Ox and Rhino get so big and strong? AFAIK we all need protein but if the protein is via plants and not vis plants to animals to food, its better? Would a diet based mainly on meat be better?"

Ox, Rhino and Gorillas have evolved to process plant derived protein - and they have to eat a SH*TELOAD of it to survive and thrive.

We haven't.

So while I found Game Changers interesting - the fundamental comment re "cut out the middle man" ignores the role that evolution and our digestive system plays. I also couldn't help but think for every example of a top athlete that is plant based - there would be literally thousands who aren't.

That said most of us eat too much meat (me incl) and should eat more plant based food - esp so given the other dis-benefits of meat e.g. cardiac disease, cancers etc.

And if plant based meat replacements become as tasty and nearly as cost effective as meat - I would be open to moving to this from a philosophical POV as well.

Yep, I get all that. As in my previous post, there is a lot of good info out there, its not a fad thing that Im interested in. There are negatives for meat and plants, but the meat side seems more harsh. Shortcomings with plants, like iron, but thats easily solved. Re gorillas, etc, our equivalent is avoiding 12 hours feeding with the usual carbs we have, like mashed spuds, rice.

All good stuff.

But I do get the feeling here is that this thread is about "Vegan rocks, ban the meat, you ratbags!" Lol, not at all. Just an effort to gather info to improves ones self, no more.

Beccara

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#2355059 17-Nov-2019 11:10

It's a very large and complex subject with a heavy helping of spam/fads/scams tossed in aswell. I'll sit down and watch it but I dont think i'm the target audience, I'm not extreme on either end - I eat as much fruit and veg as I can but I do so next to a portion of beef/chicken/fish.

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floydbloke

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#2355061 17-Nov-2019 11:29

If we're not supposed to eat animals then why are they made of food? 😉😀

Did Eric Clapton really think she looked wonderful...or was it after the 15th outfit she tried on and he just wanted to get to the party and get a drink?

jfanning

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#2355063 17-Nov-2019 11:41

Is this the one where Arnold says he is a vegan now, then makes a video with Men's Health saying how he loves steak?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFk-L7Wcg0g

tdgeek

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#2355064 17-Nov-2019 11:48

floydbloke:

If we're not supposed to eat animals then why are they made of food? 😉😀

Supposedly, our teeth are made for plants. All creatures are food, from whales to bugs

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tdgeek

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#2355068 17-Nov-2019 12:04

Here is a response back top support the doco

https://www.plantbasednews.org/culture/game-changers-producer-debunks-criticisms-of-film

I guess its the same issue with any such doco. Some believe it some don't. And there is always a conspiracy theory. The link here is a sort read, and the comments as well. Note that the doco gave a myriad ion support documents

rhy7s

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#2355099 17-Nov-2019 13:40

Beccara:
Anythings possible but for me it's about time, every single non-meat eater I know spends huge amounts of their day thinking/buying/preping their food in order to remain healthy, Quite a few commented how hard it was to keep up iron levels and many supplemented with protein powders at-least once a week , Compared to myself some of them were spending 5-6x the amount of time involved with their diet. You really can't beat meat as something that you can easily create and consume year round as a good source of protein that makes up a balanced diet.

Rhino's spend upto 1/2 of their waking hours eating and the rest wallowing, Gorilla's spend 1/3 of their day eating and 1/3 forging with the rest sleeping and mild actives.

I'm fully plant based and don't use refined fats, sugar or salt, preparing almost everything from scratch, spend up to half an hour a day on food prep and eat only once a day. Grocery shopping once a month (with some bulk goods delivered by post) with a few fruit and veg top ups in between. Only supplement B12, blood results are excellent.

Been approx 10 years plant based without exception, for about 5 years before that would eat eggs from our ducks at the time and dairy if someone else had prepared it. Vegetarian for about 5 years prior to that.

Bulk calories are cheap, grains in the $2-3/kg range and legumes in the $3-$5 range. Also get NZ grown quinoa at about $7/kg. Buy kumara at about $1.50-$2.50/kg, don't eat much potato, but that can be $1/kg or less, onions $2/kg, a variety of berries are under $10/kg frozen. Brassicas are cheap if you're not looking at fancy varieties. Grains and legumes are very easy to create dishes around. No refrigeration necessary, long shelf life, moments to prepare and 30mins plus or minus to cook if you're using lentils or black eyed beans and brown rice. Or no hassle in a slow cooker, or faster in a pressure cooker, or cans are quick and pretty cheap, often under $1.50.

Humans have access to much higher calorie density plants, and much lower body masses to maintain than larger herbivores.

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#2355100 17-Nov-2019 13:49

A few reviews googling and its clear. Its fake, meat rocks. Raised cholesterol, inflammation from meat is apparently "inconclusive" as is cancer. . No studies. Then I read there are studies. Half of these had meat based websites so ignored them.

Better off to google benefits of meat, benefits of plant based, and negatives on both, and read 10 sites of each. What I do see is bias everywhere, so the facts are hard to filter.

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#2355106 17-Nov-2019 14:03

Rikkitic:
If you want a comparison to a big, brawny, powerful vegan, you don't have to look further than a gorilla. Personally, I have been a meat denier for many, many years now and am still healthy at an advanced age as far as I know. I do eat fish but no mammals or other animals. It has worked well for me.

Gorillas don't seem to be very good vegans, according to sciencing.com

"Occasionally, the silverback will also eat grubs or bugs. If the gorillas happen to find a wild ant nest, they will break into it and eat the ants inside. Silverbacks also eat rotting wood and small animals from time to time. Though their primary diet consists of much easier-to-find vegetation, the silverback gorilla, like humans, are an omnivorous species: they can eat meat or plants as they choose."

Geektastic

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#2355107 17-Nov-2019 14:04

I like meat.

I dislike vegetables.

Therefore....

Rikkitic

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#2355111 17-Nov-2019 14:27

"Would you like to see the menu?" he said, "or would you like meet the Dish of the Day?"

"Huh?" said Ford.

"Huh?" said Arthur.

"Huh?" said Trillian.

"That's cool," said Zaphod, "we'll meet the meat."

...

A large dairy animal approached Zaphod Beeblebrox's table, a large fat meaty quadruped of the bovine type with large watery eyes, small horns and what might almost have been an ingratiating smile on its lips.

"Good evening," it lowed and sat back heavily on its haunches, "I am the main Dish of the Day. May I interest you in the parts of my body?"

It harrumphed and gurgled a bit, wriggled its hind quarters in to a more comfortable position and gazed peacefully at them.

Its gaze was met by looks of startled bewilderment from Arthur and Trillian, a resigned shrug from Ford Prefect and naked hunger from Zaphod Beeblebrox.

"Something off the shoulder perhaps?" suggested the animal, "braised in a white wine sauce?"

"Er, your shoulder?" said Arthur in a horrified whisper.

"But naturally my shoulder, sir," mooed the animal contentedly, "nobody else's is mine to offer."

Zaphod leapt to his feet and started prodding and feeling the animal's shoulder appreciatively.

"Or the rump is very good," murmured the animal. "I've been exercising it and eating plenty of grain, so there's a lot of good meat there."

It gave a mellow grunt, gurgled again and started to chew the cud. It swallowed the cud again.

"Or a casserole of me perhaps?" it added.

"You mean this animal actually wants us to eat it?" whispered Trillian to Ford.

"Me?" said Ford, with a glazed look in his eyes, "I don't mean anything."

"That's absolutely horrible," exclaimed Arthur, "the most revolting thing I've ever heard."

"What's the problem Earthman?" said Zaphod, now transferring his attention to the animal's enormous rump.

"I just don't want to eat an animal that's standing there inviting me to," said Arthur, "It's heartless."

"Better than eating an animal that doesn't want to be eaten," said Zaphod.

"That's not the point," Arthur protested. Then he thought about it for a moment. "Alright," he said, "maybe it is the point. I don't care, I'm not going to think about it now. I'll just... er [...] I think I'll just have a green salad," he muttered.

"May I urge you to consider my liver?" asked the animal, "it must be very rich and tender by now, I've been force-feeding myself for months."

"A green salad," said Arthur emphatically.

"A green salad?" said the animal, rolling his eyes disapprovingly at Arthur.

"Are you going to tell me," said Arthur, "that I shouldn't have green salad?"

"Well," said the animal, "I know many vegetables that are very clear on that point. Which is why it was eventually decided to cut through the whole tangled problem and breed an animal that actually wanted to be eaten and was capable of saying so clearly and distinctly. And here I am."

It managed a very slight bow.

"Glass of water please," said Arthur.

"Look," said Zaphod, "we want to eat, we don't want to make a meal of the issues. Four rare stakes please, and hurry. We haven't eaten in five hundred and seventy-six thousand million years."

The animal staggered to its feet. It gave a mellow gurgle. "A very wise choice, sir, if I may say so. Very good," it said, "I'll just nip off and shoot myself."

He turned and gave a friendly wink to Arthur. "Don't worry, sir," he said, "I'll be very humane."

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

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#2355218 17-Nov-2019 16:49

The high protein meat diet is what made homo sapiens what we are now. The protein feed our brains and made it grow. We were successful because we are an omnivore.

Dratsab

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#2355256 17-Nov-2019 19:11

There's a site called mediabiasfactcheck.com which can sometimes be useful in helping to evaluate the source material you're looking at. For instance this site rates nutritionfacts.org as "a moderate pseudoscience source due to exaggerated health claims." The analysis/bias section in relation to nutritionfacts is brief but interesting reading.

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