Gamechangers - Meat Doco

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tdgeek

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#260235 17-Nov-2019 08:04

This is a doco about going off meat in your diet. A mate put me onto it. I assumed it was the usual, cut down on meat, eat more fruit and vegetables, exercise more. The usual.

BUT, it goes way beyond that. Factual and scientific, and scary.

Keen to see others comments.

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#2354959 17-Nov-2019 08:34

I'd recommend checking out https://nutritionfacts.org/topics/ for a range of related topics. I usually just read the transcripts to make it quicker to get through the info, and sources cited are linked. Some of the petri dish studies and such seem like a bit of a stretch for content, but there's plenty of solid info.

Interviews with Kim Williams https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VNW_5EqqWoo and Caldwell Esselstyn https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/saturday/audio/2437606/caldwell-esselstyn-plant-based-diet are worth a listen.

The interviews at Plant Proof with researchers and doctors are pretty decent https://plantproof.com/category/podcast/, the Instagram celebs and such, not so much. If you're coming from the Game Changers though, the athletes may be of interest.

Tackling a lot of the common misperceptions and misinformation, the transcripts at http://plantpositive.com/ are thorough.

If you want to get caught up in the online controversies in nutrition, which can get a bit snarky, so probably best in small doses, these videos can keep you abreast of some of what's trending https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCGJq0eQZoFSwgcqgxIE9MHw/videos

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#2354966 17-Nov-2019 09:05

Cheers for that. The point that gets me, being a meat eating male, is that what do huge, strong Ox and Rhinos's eat? Plants. When we eat meat, we are eating plant based protein where the animal is just the middle man, but what we end up with is poor in comparison to the genuine article. These athletes that went to 100% plant based diet, performed better, more endurance, stronger. Let alone avoiding the many dietary negatives from animals.The strongest man in the world only eats plants. They also proved from bones that early man wasn't the spear wielding game hunter, they also ate almost only plants.

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#2354981 17-Nov-2019 09:30

If you want a comparison to a big, brawny, powerful vegan, you don't have to look further than a gorilla. Personally, I have been a meat denier for many, many years now and am still healthy at an advanced age as far as I know. I do eat fish but no mammals or other animals. It has worked well for me.

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#2354983 17-Nov-2019 09:39

Rikkitic:

If you want a comparison to a big, brawny, powerful vegan, you don't have to look further than a gorilla. Personally, I have been a meat denier for many, many years now and am still healthy at an advanced age as far as I know. I do eat fish but no mammals or other animals. It has worked well for me.

i am advanced years eat meat and it has worked well for me

Common sense is not as common as you think.

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#2354994 17-Nov-2019 10:08

I watched it and found it pretty entertaining.

Noticed that everything was plant-based diet and no mention of vegetarianism or vegan.

It started getting a little preachy near the end but not too bad.

I strongly suggest you do some alternative research /reviews of the documentary and read up on some of the counter arguments and make up your own mind - in other words DYOR.

I found one article that documented the weight lifters diet. Sure it's plant based but it's also largely protein shake and supplement based - shake, shake, shake, salad, shake, shake, shake etc...

Personally, knowing all the bias and inaccurate misrepresentations in Game Changers I still decided to try a meat free diet. I figured more plants in my diet can't hurt. Week 3 and it's been an interesting experience - I'm looking closer at menus when dining out to try and find the vegetarian dishes. I've tried foods I've previously avoided (eggplant) and overall been a lot more aware of what I've been eating. Still got to cut down on sugar and chips though.

I'll go back to some meat at some stage (maybe one day a week or two days a week - BBQ season is coming). Probably fall in the flexitarian category.

I tried a beyond burger - it resembled meat enough but was a little on the bland side. I'd still eat it but at the moment those burgers are at a premium price-wise.

Just listened to a podcast on Freakanomics about the future of meat and the alternatives. Interesting stuff.

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#2354995 17-Nov-2019 10:15

tdgeek:

Cheers for that. The point that gets me, being a meat eating male, is that what do huge, strong Ox and Rhinos's eat? Plants. When we eat meat, we are eating plant based protein where the animal is just the middle man, but what we end up with is poor in comparison to the genuine article. These athletes that went to 100% plant based diet, performed better, more endurance, stronger. Let alone avoiding the many dietary negatives from animals.The strongest man in the world only eats plants. They also proved from bones that early man wasn't the spear wielding game hunter, they also ate almost only plants.

The strongman lives off protein shakes and supplements with some plants thrown in.

The gladiators apparently were all big fat guys - the more fat they had the more protection for their vital organs.

Our digestive system is not the same as the animals we consume. Why do we feed newborns mother milk instead of a salad?

Having said that, there's nothing wrong with eating more plants and the world is changing. More changes will come too with meat becoming less relevant as substitutes hit the market (not just plant based but lab grown meat, insects, algae etc...) but if we ever see soylent green on the shelves we've gone too far.

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tdgeek

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#2354996 17-Nov-2019 10:15

logo:

I watched it and found it pretty entertaining.

Noticed that everything was plant-based diet and no mention of vegetarianism or vegan.

It started getting a little preachy near the end but not too bad.

I strongly suggest you do some alternative research /reviews of the documentary and read up on some of the counter arguments and make up your own mind - in other words DYOR.

I found one article that documented the weight lifters diet. Sure it's plant based but it's also largely protein shake and supplement based - shake, shake, shake, salad, shake, shake, shake etc...

Personally, knowing all the bias and inaccurate misrepresentations in Game Changers I still decided to try a meat free diet. I figured more plants in my diet can't hurt. Week 3 and it's been an interesting experience - I'm looking closer at menus when dining out to try and find the vegetarian dishes. I've tried foods I've previously avoided (eggplant) and overall been a lot more aware of what I've been eating. Still got to cut down on sugar and chips though.

I'll go back to some meat at some stage (maybe one day a week or two days a week - BBQ season is coming). Probably fall in the flexitarian category.

I tried a beyond burger - it resembled meat enough but was a little on the bland side. I'd still eat it but at the moment those burgers are at a premium price-wise.

Just listened to a podcast on Freakanomics about the future of meat and the alternatives. Interesting stuff.

Can you elaborate on those? I found it a scientific doco. Remember, we all eat plant based protein, but when that's via animals, thats where it falls down. There seemed to be plenty of non hardcore non preachy scientific evidence.

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#2355036 17-Nov-2019 10:20

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tdgeek:

Cheers for that. The point that gets me, being a meat eating male, is that what do huge, strong Ox and Rhinos's eat? Plants. When we eat meat, we are eating plant based protein where the animal is just the middle man, but what we end up with is poor in comparison to the genuine article. These athletes that went to 100% plant based diet, performed better, more endurance, stronger. Let alone avoiding the many dietary negatives from animals.The strongest man in the world only eats plants. They also proved from bones that early man wasn't the spear wielding game hunter, they also ate almost only plants.

The strongman lives off protein shakes and supplements with some plants thrown in.

The gladiators apparently were all big fat guys - the more fat they had the more protection for their vital organs.

Our digestive system is not the same as the animals we consume. Why do we feed newborns mother milk instead of a salad?

Having said that, there's nothing wrong with eating more plants and the world is changing. More changes will come too with meat becoming less relevant as substitutes hit the market (not just plant based but lab grown meat, insects, algae etc...) but if we ever see soylent green on the shelves we've gone too far.

So the strongman isn't on a plant based diet? How can Ox and Rhino get so big and strong? AFAIK we all need protein but if the protein is via plants and not vis plants to animals to food, its better? Would a diet based mainly on meat be better?

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#2355037 17-Nov-2019 10:25

tdgeek:

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Personally, knowing all the bias and inaccurate misrepresentations in Game Changers I still decided to try a meat free diet. I figured more plants in my diet can't hurt. Week 3 and it's been an interesting experience - I'm looking closer at menus when dining out to try and find the vegetarian dishes. I've tried foods I've previously avoided (eggplant) and overall been a lot more aware of what I've been eating. Still got to cut down on sugar and chips though.

Can you elaborate on those? I found it a scientific doco. Remember, we all eat plant based protein, but when that's via animals, thats where it falls down. There seemed to be plenty of non hardcore non preachy scientific evidence.

Have a look at these reviews:

https://www.biolayne.com/articles/research/the-game-changers-review-a-scientific-analysis/

https://perfectketo.com/game-changers-movie-fact-check/

https://tacticmethod.com/the-game-changers-scientific-review-and-references/

Don't get me wrong - I really enjoyed the show and still tell people to watch it but qualify it by asking they do their own further research afterwards and then make up your own mind. Like I said in a previous post, I've decided to go meat free for a while, even knowing the criticisms (some which appear quite valid).

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#2355039 17-Nov-2019 10:28

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tdgeek:

logo:

Personally, knowing all the bias and inaccurate misrepresentations in Game Changers I still decided to try a meat free diet. I figured more plants in my diet can't hurt. Week 3 and it's been an interesting experience - I'm looking closer at menus when dining out to try and find the vegetarian dishes. I've tried foods I've previously avoided (eggplant) and overall been a lot more aware of what I've been eating. Still got to cut down on sugar and chips though.

Can you elaborate on those? I found it a scientific doco. Remember, we all eat plant based protein, but when that's via animals, thats where it falls down. There seemed to be plenty of non hardcore non preachy scientific evidence.

Have a look at these reviews:

https://www.biolayne.com/articles/research/the-game-changers-review-a-scientific-analysis/

https://perfectketo.com/game-changers-movie-fact-check/

https://tacticmethod.com/the-game-changers-scientific-review-and-references/

Don't get me wrong - I really enjoyed the show and still tell people to watch it but qualify it by asking they do their own further research afterwards and then make up your own mind. Like I said in a previous post, I've decided to go meat free for a while, even knowing the criticisms (some which appear quite valid).

Ok, Ill check them out.

I couldn't care less what the outcome of a doco is, I'm interested in facts. if avoiding meat based diet is very beneficial thats great to know, and why. If eating red meat 3 times a day was the ideal diet, thats great to know, and why. I tend to avoid fluff, marketing, etc, but it seemed to be to be a basic scientific piece.

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#2355040 17-Nov-2019 10:33

tdgeek:

So the strongman isn't on a plant based diet? How can Ox and Rhino get so big and strong? AFAIK we all need protein but if the protein is via plants and not vis plants to animals to food, its better? Would a diet based mainly on meat be better?

He has a lot of protein shakes and supplements (presumerably the shakes are from plant-based protein but imagine how many peas are needed to extract the amount of protein he needs).

A cow eats A LOT of grass and has four stomachs to efficiently process that grass. When we consume beef we are consuming the result of that. If you tried to eat just grass you won't get the same effect.

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#2355041 17-Nov-2019 10:36

Anythings possible but for me it's about time, every single non-meat eater I know spends huge amounts of their day thinking/buying/preping their food in order to remain healthy, Quite a few commented how hard it was to keep up iron levels and many supplemented with protein powders at-least once a week , Compared to myself some of them were spending 5-6x the amount of time involved with their diet. You really can't beat meat as something that you can easily create and consume year round as a good source of protein that makes up a balanced diet.

Rhino's spend upto 1/2 of their waking hours eating and the rest wallowing, Gorilla's spend 1/3 of their day eating and 1/3 forging with the rest sleeping and mild actives.

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#2355045 17-Nov-2019 10:41

I have never made any effort at all to compensate for my diet. No supplements, no vitamins, no trying to balance particular foods. I just eat what I like and I always have. One of the things I like is not eating meat. I just don't like it. I find the smell of it cooking slightly nauseating. Like I said, I do eat fish, also dairy, so maybe that keeps me healthy. I don't know. I have never been bothered by it.

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#2355049 17-Nov-2019 10:50

Something that it pays to remember with trying to cut meat out of the diet is that it's not an "all or nothing" proposal.

I told a vegan friend recently "I could probably give up animal products, but I adore cheese and bacon." Her response was "Well don't give them up then. You're still doing your body and the environment a favour by cutting down meat. It's like exercise - every little bit of exercise is a net benefit, even if you don't stick with it or go hard at it."

A flexitarian type of approach is a good start.

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#2355050 17-Nov-2019 10:51

I skimmed those three links. Its fair to say the doco is promoting plant based diets. But the three links are unashamedly anti vegan. And hardwire with that. Time for more wider research.

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