Qantas grounded indefinitely ... is this the beginning of the end ... again?

Forums › Off topic › Qantas grounded indefinitely ... is this the beginning of the end ... again?

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Networkn
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#539150 29-Oct-2011 23:44

Doesn't seem like it.

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#539161 30-Oct-2011 00:31

hypothetical Q (no money to act):

financialists please tell me: should we buy singapore airline and air nz shares straightaway, or wait till qantas shares hit near rock bottom and then buy the lot?

which one has a more likely gain?

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#539162 30-Oct-2011 00:34

joker97: hypothetical Q (no money to act):

financialists please tell me: should we buy singapore airline and air nz shares straightaway, or wait till qantas shares hit near rock bottom and then buy the lot?

which one has a more likely gain?

ya, well the implication there really does have tin foil hat implications, but yes.

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#539163 30-Oct-2011 00:49

GeekGuy: Didnt the CEO just get a pay increase to $5 million and then wanted to cut staff levels ?

Yeah...Playing tough guy on a fat pay cheque.

Qantas want to cut the wages and conditions of their staff. The staff, understandably, don't want to slide backward.

In the US, you now have regional airline pilots being paid not much more than counter staff at McDonalds. The union know where this is heading.

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#539167 30-Oct-2011 01:43

Qantas, this is just absolutely appalling.

My parents were due to fly out to Sydney then LA tomorrow morning and then we heard this. On the phone on hold for over 2 hours and then we found out that the phones are jammed. Just spent all evening up till 1 organizing an alternate flight with Cathay to HONG KONG THEN LOS ANGELES (for frequent flyer miles sake). I sure hope they fix this quickly.

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#539185 30-Oct-2011 08:06

dontpanic42: So, will this also affect Jetstar aircraft?

This will not affect Jetstar or any trans-tasman QANTAS routes.

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#539194 30-Oct-2011 08:55

Linuxluver:
GeekGuy: Didnt the CEO just get a pay increase to $5 million and then wanted to cut staff levels ?

Yeah...Playing tough guy on a fat pay cheque.

Qantas want to cut the wages and conditions of their staff. The staff, understandably, don't want to slide backward.

In the US, you now have regional airline pilots being paid not much more than counter staff at McDonalds. The union know where this is heading.

Maybe all the pilots on A$536000 per year (as reported in the media this week) who have had a $40,000 increase should be sharing some of that around.

The average Qantas A380 pilot also gets $415,000 per year.

Do you think these are reasonable wages for a pilot, especially with all the perks they get on top? Qantas have some of the best paid crew and conditions in the airline world.

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#539198 30-Oct-2011 09:05

sbiddle: Maybe all the pilots on A$536000 per year (as reported in the media this week) who have had a $40,000 increase should be sharing some of that around.

The average Qantas A380 pilot also gets $415,000 per year.

Do you think these are reasonable wages for a pilot, especially with all the perks they get on top? Qantas have some of the best paid crew and conditions in the airline world.

spot on sbiddle. this is correct

GeekGuy

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#539214 30-Oct-2011 09:53

Also dont the pilots have strict medicals as well ?? and is it the pilots on strike or the baggage handlers ?

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#539220 30-Oct-2011 10:34

nakedmolerat:
sbiddle: Maybe all the pilots on A$536000 per year (as reported in the media this week) who have had a $40,000 increase should be sharing some of that around.

The average Qantas A380 pilot also gets $415,000 per year.

Do you think these are reasonable wages for a pilot, especially with all the perks they get on top? Qantas have some of the best paid crew and conditions in the airline world.

spot on sbiddle. this is correct

Maybe you should ask the passengers that were on the A380 that had the engine explode out of Singapore (causing multiple system failures) if they think the Captain of the flight is worth half a million a year? Up to 500 lives in their hands and using skill and experience that decades in Qantas afforded them.

Why do people who don't bat an eyelid at a lawyer earning $1M+ have a problem with higher pay for professionalism and experience when lives are at stake?

Haven't read the article but am always suspicious of pieces that use statistics. The average A380 Captain will have been in Qantas for 30 years, have tens of thousands of hours experience, be medically fit and have passed a competency test within the preceding 6 months.

The politics of envy at play here I think. A common tactic in disputes of this sort.

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#539226 30-Oct-2011 10:53

Linuxluver:

...In the US, you now have regional airline pilots being paid not much more than counter staff at McDonalds. The union know where this is heading.

But if one deals in facts rather than in exaggerations for the sake of pushing a ideological line -

A first year captain in a US non jet commuter airline for a Dash 8 sized aircraft typically gets approximately 5 to 6 times the hourly rate as a Mcdonald's counter worker - the US pilot gets paid for the hours he is available to fly.

A 10 year captain gets approximately 7-8 times the hourly rate.

Whether those are fair wages ior not is another argument but whatever, there is a big surplus of small aircraft pilots in the USA (and worldwide) but this is a systemic thing driven by people (especially young men) considering the job to be a glamour one and being attracted to it. So there are also many looking for work but pilots are not alone in that. Probably a fault of ALPA's as much as anyone elses.

As has been pointed out, Qantas pilots get paid extremely well compared to the vast majority of the population and in fact also get paid very well in comparison to many other international airlines.

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#539227 30-Oct-2011 10:57

Nowhere did I say the money is/was excessive.

Qantas have some of the highest paid staff in the world, with some of the best working conditions and perks for airline staff in the world. They earn significantly more than anybody else, and vastly more than a Air NZ Captain with the same skill set.

Why? In part because Australia is a union dominated country with big companies who don't have an option but to literallty give in to the demands of their workers. Once again this isn't necessarly a bad thing.

What is clear however is that the airline industry right now is a vastly different one to 10 years ago. Airlines globally are losing huge amounts of money, and unlike the US where government bailouts have occured every few years, sometimes more than once for the same airline, but to high salaries and expensive superannuation packages, Qantas don't want the same sort of thing to occur.

As an example - how can Qantas compete on a flight from Sydney to Auckland where the crew will all be paid significantly more than any other airline flying the same route? Qantas claim their actual costs for an Australian based Qantas plane are 20% more than any competitors.

Airline restructuring is inevitable.

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#539236 30-Oct-2011 11:35

Dingbatt:

...Maybe you should ask the passengers that were on the A380 that had the engine explode out of Singapore (causing multiple system failures) if they think the Captain of the flight is worth half a million a year? Up to 500 lives in their hands and using skill and experience that decades in Qantas afforded them.

Well maybe they may have thought that for that pilot for that particular moment but maybe not for the other 30 or so years of his career nor for the vast majority of pilots for whom nothing of great event happens.

Note, I am not saying pilots should not be paid appropriately to their skills and responsibilities, and according to their availability in the job market, just pointing out that your reasoning stinks

. Else lets just pay everyone lots more money because a few of us will one day do something in the workplace to reduce risk to life. For example, a bus driver saves (possibly?) 75 lives by good driving, should we pay all bus drivers half a mill per year because his passengers thought he was worth it at the time?

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#539257 30-Oct-2011 12:45

John2010: For example, a bus driver saves (possibly?) 75 lives by good driving, should we pay all bus drivers half a mill per year because his passengers thought he was worth it at the time?

John, thought about this one a bit and decided you have a good point. There are plenty of bus drivers who have done 30 years dedicated service.

I'm sure bus drivers would be happy with $150,000pa AUD. What do they get paid in .au these days?

Wouldn't want to be a taxi driver by this logic though - $10,000....

$1m/500 --> $2k/a/seat... so 75 seats @ $2k/a --> $150k, but 5 seats @ $2k/a is not quite as good a deal.

Having said this... think if the green implications of this! Seriously. If we just have one uniform law that says $2k/a/seat we'll drive all the dozens and dozens of taxis of the roads, freeing up road space for more efficient buses with better wages for those who do drive! Yeah!!!! Go the Greens...

Ok, ok.... before you slap me, ya... I can see how this is going to back fire as well... we'll end up with dozens and dozens of big smelly buses on the roads with 2 people in them each!

Perhaps I should just stick to public forum posting and not public transport policy ;)

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#539271 30-Oct-2011 13:21

From what I remember of this, one of the sticking points that the union is demanding is the right to veto any change put forward by Qantas.

http://www.theage.com.au/national/qantas-engineer-strike-set-to-disrupt-flights-20110509-1efva.html

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