ZOMG we need those anti-terror surveillance laws right now!

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#1199646 18-Dec-2014 07:56

freitasm: People should stop drawing attention to Sydney's events as an example of "need laws".

The guy was a criminal. He was accessory to murder of ex wife (plead guilty to that). He had 50 charges of sex-related crimes and waiting for hearing. He was on a watch list but then removed from it, and he had a gun permit.

Obviously the authorities knew about him but yet did nothing. He should have been locked up, he should have no gun permit.

The laws are there, just a bunch of idiots not enacting them.

Don't need everyone being watched because of some government dummy not doing his job.

The white vet in America killed six people, then himself. He was not a terrorist, he was a crazy guy. This one was brown and had a different religion, therefore some call him a terrorist - never mind he was a completely crazy guy as well.

If we had five guys storming a building, holding hostages, beheading them one by one, demanding resources for some illegal organisation then blowing themselves up, yes I'd say "terrorists". But this episode? This one was a demented person with no sense of reality and a failure of government officials to keep him locked up.

Well before decide whether its terrorism or not, lets define terrorism:

Terrorism Defined: Criminal acts through the use or threat of violence intended to create a state of terror by a person or group of persons for political purposes...whether those (political) purposes are cultural, philosophical, idealogical religious or otherwise.

Now we can decide whether Sydney mets the definiton:

Criminal Act: Yes
Violence used: Yes
Created Terror: Yes
Religious/Idealogical/Political Purpose: This ones a bit tricky and comes down to his motive.

We do know that he affilitaed himself with a flag used by ISIS (anyone who does an act on behalf of ISIS would be political) and we do know that he wanted to speak to the Prime Minister of Australia. So I would say Yes he was idealogically motivated.

So I think it meets the definition.

Insansity/Delusional or operating as a lone wolf is not part of the test for this definition.

heylinb4nz

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#1199655 18-Dec-2014 08:23

bigal_nz:
freitasm: People should stop drawing attention to Sydney's events as an example of "need laws".

The guy was a criminal. He was accessory to murder of ex wife (plead guilty to that). He had 50 charges of sex-related crimes and waiting for hearing. He was on a watch list but then removed from it, and he had a gun permit.

Obviously the authorities knew about him but yet did nothing. He should have been locked up, he should have no gun permit.

The laws are there, just a bunch of idiots not enacting them.

Don't need everyone being watched because of some government dummy not doing his job.

The white vet in America killed six people, then himself. He was not a terrorist, he was a crazy guy. This one was brown and had a different religion, therefore some call him a terrorist - never mind he was a completely crazy guy as well.

If we had five guys storming a building, holding hostages, beheading them one by one, demanding resources for some illegal organisation then blowing themselves up, yes I'd say "terrorists". But this episode? This one was a demented person with no sense of reality and a failure of government officials to keep him locked up.

Well before decide whether its terrorism or not, lets define terrorism:

Terrorism Defined: Criminal acts through the use or threat of violence intended to create a state of terror by a person or group of persons for political purposes...whether those (political) purposes are cultural, philosophical, idealogical religious or otherwise.

Now we can decide whether Sydney mets the definiton:

Criminal Act: Yes
Violence used: Yes
Created Terror: Yes
Religious/Idealogical/Political Purpose: This ones a bit tricky and comes down to his motive.

We do know that he affilitaed himself with a flag used by ISIS (anyone who does an act on behalf of ISIS would be political) and we do know that he wanted to speak to the Prime Minister of Australia. So I would say Yes he was idealogically motivated.

So I think it meets the definition.

Insansity/Delusional or operating as a lone wolf is not part of the test for this definition.

Pretty much sums up american government except they get away with it as they can change the laws so as not to be painted as criminals (in eyes of law anyway).

Great thing about government and media is they can invent these terms to push whatever agenda they have to further their own interests which are usual based on money and power.

bigal_nz

635 posts

Ultimate Geek
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#1199660 18-Dec-2014 08:36

heylinb4nz:
bigal_nz:
freitasm: People should stop drawing attention to Sydney's events as an example of "need laws".

The guy was a criminal. He was accessory to murder of ex wife (plead guilty to that). He had 50 charges of sex-related crimes and waiting for hearing. He was on a watch list but then removed from it, and he had a gun permit.

Obviously the authorities knew about him but yet did nothing. He should have been locked up, he should have no gun permit.

The laws are there, just a bunch of idiots not enacting them.

Don't need everyone being watched because of some government dummy not doing his job.

The white vet in America killed six people, then himself. He was not a terrorist, he was a crazy guy. This one was brown and had a different religion, therefore some call him a terrorist - never mind he was a completely crazy guy as well.

If we had five guys storming a building, holding hostages, beheading them one by one, demanding resources for some illegal organisation then blowing themselves up, yes I'd say "terrorists". But this episode? This one was a demented person with no sense of reality and a failure of government officials to keep him locked up.

Well before decide whether its terrorism or not, lets define terrorism:

Terrorism Defined: Criminal acts through the use or threat of violence intended to create a state of terror by a person or group of persons for political purposes...whether those (political) purposes are cultural, philosophical, idealogical religious or otherwise.

Now we can decide whether Sydney mets the definiton:

Criminal Act: Yes
Violence used: Yes
Created Terror: Yes
Religious/Idealogical/Political Purpose: This ones a bit tricky and comes down to his motive.

We do know that he affilitaed himself with a flag used by ISIS (anyone who does an act on behalf of ISIS would be political) and we do know that he wanted to speak to the Prime Minister of Australia. So I would say Yes he was idealogically motivated.

So I think it meets the definition.

Insansity/Delusional or operating as a lone wolf is not part of the test for this definition.

Pretty much sums up american government except they get away with it as they can change the laws so as not to be painted as criminals (in eyes of law anyway).

Great thing about government and media is they can invent these terms to push whatever agenda they have to further their own interests which are usual based on money and power.

First your saying the american government is terrorist, then all government (non specific) and now the media too.

Troll or your just a conspiracy theorist / Jason Bourne wannabe.

MikeB4

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#1199661 18-Dec-2014 08:39

heylinb4nz:
bigal_nz:
freitasm: People should stop drawing attention to Sydney's events as an example of "need laws".

The guy was a criminal. He was accessory to murder of ex wife (plead guilty to that). He had 50 charges of sex-related crimes and waiting for hearing. He was on a watch list but then removed from it, and he had a gun permit.

Obviously the authorities knew about him but yet did nothing. He should have been locked up, he should have no gun permit.

The laws are there, just a bunch of idiots not enacting them.

Don't need everyone being watched because of some government dummy not doing his job.

The white vet in America killed six people, then himself. He was not a terrorist, he was a crazy guy. This one was brown and had a different religion, therefore some call him a terrorist - never mind he was a completely crazy guy as well.

If we had five guys storming a building, holding hostages, beheading them one by one, demanding resources for some illegal organisation then blowing themselves up, yes I'd say "terrorists". But this episode? This one was a demented person with no sense of reality and a failure of government officials to keep him locked up.

Well before decide whether its terrorism or not, lets define terrorism:

Terrorism Defined: Criminal acts through the use or threat of violence intended to create a state of terror by a person or group of persons for political purposes...whether those (political) purposes are cultural, philosophical, idealogical religious or otherwise.

Now we can decide whether Sydney mets the definiton:

Criminal Act: Yes
Violence used: Yes
Created Terror: Yes
Religious/Idealogical/Political Purpose: This ones a bit tricky and comes down to his motive.

We do know that he affilitaed himself with a flag used by ISIS (anyone who does an act on behalf of ISIS would be political) and we do know that he wanted to speak to the Prime Minister of Australia. So I would say Yes he was idealogically motivated.

So I think it meets the definition.

Insansity/Delusional or operating as a lone wolf is not part of the test for this definition.

Pretty much sums up american government except they get away with it as they can change the laws so as not to be painted as criminals (in eyes of law anyway).

Great thing about government and media is they can invent these terms to push whatever agenda they have to further their own interests which are usual based on money and power.

And if someone attacks NZ who will we call and YOU will join the call ....... America

So America invented the Teliban, ISIL, Boko Harem, AL Qaeda..... and America and the media invented their atrocities

Give me a break

heylinb4nz

656 posts

Ultimate Geek
Inactive user

#1199693 18-Dec-2014 09:35

KiwiNZ:
heylinb4nz:
bigal_nz:
freitasm: People should stop drawing attention to Sydney's events as an example of "need laws".

The guy was a criminal. He was accessory to murder of ex wife (plead guilty to that). He had 50 charges of sex-related crimes and waiting for hearing. He was on a watch list but then removed from it, and he had a gun permit.

Obviously the authorities knew about him but yet did nothing. He should have been locked up, he should have no gun permit.

The laws are there, just a bunch of idiots not enacting them.

Don't need everyone being watched because of some government dummy not doing his job.

The white vet in America killed six people, then himself. He was not a terrorist, he was a crazy guy. This one was brown and had a different religion, therefore some call him a terrorist - never mind he was a completely crazy guy as well.

If we had five guys storming a building, holding hostages, beheading them one by one, demanding resources for some illegal organisation then blowing themselves up, yes I'd say "terrorists". But this episode? This one was a demented person with no sense of reality and a failure of government officials to keep him locked up.

Well before decide whether its terrorism or not, lets define terrorism:

Terrorism Defined: Criminal acts through the use or threat of violence intended to create a state of terror by a person or group of persons for political purposes...whether those (political) purposes are cultural, philosophical, idealogical religious or otherwise.

Now we can decide whether Sydney mets the definiton:

Criminal Act: Yes
Violence used: Yes
Created Terror: Yes
Religious/Idealogical/Political Purpose: This ones a bit tricky and comes down to his motive.

We do know that he affilitaed himself with a flag used by ISIS (anyone who does an act on behalf of ISIS would be political) and we do know that he wanted to speak to the Prime Minister of Australia. So I would say Yes he was idealogically motivated.

So I think it meets the definition.

Insansity/Delusional or operating as a lone wolf is not part of the test for this definition.

Pretty much sums up american government except they get away with it as they can change the laws so as not to be painted as criminals (in eyes of law anyway).

Great thing about government and media is they can invent these terms to push whatever agenda they have to further their own interests which are usual based on money and power.

And if someone attacks NZ who will we call and YOU will join the call ....... America

So America invented the Teliban, ISIL, Boko Harem, AL Qaeda..... and America and the media invented their atrocities

Give me a break

I think certain forces behind America had a deliberate hand in ensuring that these entities existed or at least gained a foothold and that the controlled media just report (and embellish) what is playing out in order to feed the fear engine thus making the population more accepting of various things (like new legislation, not questioning military spending, not questioning sending soldiers).

Certainly you must admit there are various connections that have been well proven and this simply isn't about Muslims, Religion and Jihad. People are making money off this, governments are gaining extra powers in spades, there are politcal gains and other agendas that are benefiting from "terrorism".

Its all rather to convenient and simplistic, which is why i believe we must ask questions and piece together what is playing out in front of us as the effects on the general population who just want to get on with living are affected.

If you buy into the lies you are just playing into their hands.

heylinb4nz

656 posts

Ultimate Geek
Inactive user

#1199697 18-Dec-2014 09:43

Bigal:
First your saying the american government is terrorist, then all government (non specific) and now the media too.

Troll or your just a conspiracy theorist / Jason Bourne wannabe.

Terror is just a word, politicians, large corporates, ngos and world bankers have caused untold destruction and misery to the people and planet not to mention stomping all over your rights on a daily basis, yet we don't spend nearly as much time and effort holding them accountable, or making legislation to prevent \ control what they do. Just becuase alot of it is done under laws or loopholes, doesnt make it right.
Id rather be a conspiracy theorist and look beyond what the media fear machine portrays than a sheeple who accepts the lies at face value because they simply don't want to know the truth or don't have the mental capacity to understand what is truely going on.

MikeB4

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#1199703 18-Dec-2014 09:49

heylinb4nz:

And if someone attacks NZ who will we call and YOU will join the call ....... America

So America invented the Teliban, ISIL, Boko Harem, AL Qaeda..... and America and the media invented their atrocities

Give me a break

I think certain forces behind America had a deliberate hand in ensuring that these entities existed or at least gained a foothold and that the controlled media just report (and embellish) what is playing out in order to feed the fear engine thus making the population more accepting of various things (like new legislation, not questioning military spending, not questioning sending soldiers).

Certainly you must admit there are various connections that have been well proven and this simply isn't about Muslims, Religion and Jihad. People are making money off this, governments are gaining extra powers in spades, there are politcal gains and other agendas that are benefiting from "terrorism".

Its all rather to convenient and simplistic, which is why i believe we must ask questions and piece together what is playing out in front of us as the effects on the general population who just want to get on with living are affected.

If you buy into the lies you are just playing into their hands.

I really cannot decide if you are serious or trolling..... wow unbelievable

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heylinb4nz

656 posts

Ultimate Geek
Inactive user

#1199712 18-Dec-2014 10:03

KiwiNZ:
heylinb4nz:

And if someone attacks NZ who will we call and YOU will join the call ....... America

So America invented the Teliban, ISIL, Boko Harem, AL Qaeda..... and America and the media invented their atrocities

Give me a break

I think certain forces behind America had a deliberate hand in ensuring that these entities existed or at least gained a foothold and that the controlled media just report (and embellish) what is playing out in order to feed the fear engine thus making the population more accepting of various things (like new legislation, not questioning military spending, not questioning sending soldiers).

Certainly you must admit there are various connections that have been well proven and this simply isn't about Muslims, Religion and Jihad. People are making money off this, governments are gaining extra powers in spades, there are politcal gains and other agendas that are benefiting from "terrorism".

Its all rather to convenient and simplistic, which is why i believe we must ask questions and piece together what is playing out in front of us as the effects on the general population who just want to get on with living are affected.

If you buy into the lies you are just playing into their hands.

I really cannot decide if you are serious or trolling..... wow unbelievable

Have you ever actually taken the time to read some of the theories ? not the reptilian race stuff either, I mean the basics like Rothchilds banking history, ww1, ww2, us political system and connections \ interests etc etc

Most people dont have the time or mental capacity to understand or bother, but once you get it, it really hits you about what is going on.

Try it...afraid you might learn something deeper other than what you see on TV ?

MikeB4

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#1199779 18-Dec-2014 10:37

heylinb4nz:
KiwiNZ:
heylinb4nz:

And if someone attacks NZ who will we call and YOU will join the call ....... America

So America invented the Teliban, ISIL, Boko Harem, AL Qaeda..... and America and the media invented their atrocities

Give me a break

I think certain forces behind America had a deliberate hand in ensuring that these entities existed or at least gained a foothold and that the controlled media just report (and embellish) what is playing out in order to feed the fear engine thus making the population more accepting of various things (like new legislation, not questioning military spending, not questioning sending soldiers).

Certainly you must admit there are various connections that have been well proven and this simply isn't about Muslims, Religion and Jihad. People are making money off this, governments are gaining extra powers in spades, there are politcal gains and other agendas that are benefiting from "terrorism".

Its all rather to convenient and simplistic, which is why i believe we must ask questions and piece together what is playing out in front of us as the effects on the general population who just want to get on with living are affected.

If you buy into the lies you are just playing into their hands.

I really cannot decide if you are serious or trolling..... wow unbelievable

Have you ever actually taken the time to read some of the theories ? not the reptilian race stuff either, I mean the basics like Rothchilds banking history, ww1, ww2, us political system and connections \ interests etc etc

Most people dont have the time or mental capacity to understand or bother, but once you get it, it really hits you about what is going on.

Try it...afraid you might learn something deeper other than what you see on TV ?

I have studied (AND PASSED) real history etc not the Jessie Ventura and the likes there of fantasies and absolute rubbish. But your latest post clarifies something for me

heylinb4nz

656 posts

Ultimate Geek
Inactive user

#1199794 18-Dec-2014 11:00

KiwiNZ:
heylinb4nz:
KiwiNZ:
heylinb4nz:

And if someone attacks NZ who will we call and YOU will join the call ....... America

So America invented the Teliban, ISIL, Boko Harem, AL Qaeda..... and America and the media invented their atrocities

Give me a break

I think certain forces behind America had a deliberate hand in ensuring that these entities existed or at least gained a foothold and that the controlled media just report (and embellish) what is playing out in order to feed the fear engine thus making the population more accepting of various things (like new legislation, not questioning military spending, not questioning sending soldiers).

Certainly you must admit there are various connections that have been well proven and this simply isn't about Muslims, Religion and Jihad. People are making money off this, governments are gaining extra powers in spades, there are politcal gains and other agendas that are benefiting from "terrorism".

Its all rather to convenient and simplistic, which is why i believe we must ask questions and piece together what is playing out in front of us as the effects on the general population who just want to get on with living are affected.

If you buy into the lies you are just playing into their hands.

I really cannot decide if you are serious or trolling..... wow unbelievable

Have you ever actually taken the time to read some of the theories ? not the reptilian race stuff either, I mean the basics like Rothchilds banking history, ww1, ww2, us political system and connections \ interests etc etc

Most people dont have the time or mental capacity to understand or bother, but once you get it, it really hits you about what is going on.

Try it...afraid you might learn something deeper other than what you see on TV ?

I have studied (AND PASSED) real history etc not the Jessie Ventura and the likes there of fantasies and absolute rubbish. But your latest post clarifies something for me

Clap clap 7th form history, barely glazes over the topics at hand.

Sort of like reading a first aid manual and saying you know how brain surgery works.

Your posts also clarify alot about you....

baaaaaaa!

gzt

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#1199797 18-Dec-2014 11:06

This kind of quick fire personal back and forth going on is adding very little to the discussion except pages.

MikeB4

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#1199803 18-Dec-2014 11:14

With the bill past, 99.9% of New Zealanders will notice 0% change to their daily activities and if successful 0% change in their lives

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#1199872 18-Dec-2014 12:46

anyway, here's another supporter of yous

heylinb4nz

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#1199918 18-Dec-2014 13:20

Funny :) if this is what you base your views on conspiracy theorists on then its no wonder you think the way you do.

You know for years many people that hold my beliefs have sat, watched and read your mainstream media like good little sheeple. You'd think people would have the common decency to take a couple hours out of their lives and read some of the well put together presentations and material out there and then draw some conclusions.

And i'm not talking reptiles from outerspace.

freitasm

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#1200013 18-Dec-2014 15:38

Madonna's new album leaked and she declared it an act of terrorism!

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