Occupy Together!!

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#567430 11-Jan-2012 16:18

listudio:
If you don't see the problems we have, that s fine. If you don't believe the power people have, you are wrong. Just looking at the history, nothing comes easy such as democracy, women rights.. .What else can I say to you?

Are you really trying to compare the Occupy Movement to Democracy, or female voting rights?

It won't be remembered in a few months, it'll be all forgotten. It seems that most of the protesters have no clue what they are actually "protesting" and a lot are hypocrites.

One guy I was speaking to in Wellington had a sign saying "down with corporate greed, stop child abuse". That makes no sense. I asked him how long he had been there. His answer was right from the beginning, but he slips home for a few hours a day to his flat in Te Aro.

He also blabbered on about the mentally ill, and unemployed. That there should be more music schools and carving workshops too! I'm sorry but wtf.

You guys have no/mixed agendas. You don't understand what the 99% is. You are the 1%!!!

You are part of the 1% of the world who owns most of the wealth. The 99% you think you are part of, are the poor in Africa, Asia, Russia and other parts of the 3rd world

I have moved across the ditch. Now residing in Melbourne as a VOIP/Video Technical Trainer/Engineer.

LookingUp

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#567444 11-Jan-2012 16:44

...

What are the problems we have today?

....

Personally, I'd suggest a trip back through the history books. I'll think you'll find that people today, certainly in the western world, have far more employment choices than pretty much any time I could put my finger on. Today you even have a choice to be unemployed if you really want - not too long ago you'd beg or starve.

Similarly, history is littered with conflict and wars - the only differences now are that we have more efficient ways of killing people and the means to report on it.

The one point I do agree with is the one about resources, but to a large extent this is caused by increasing population, which itself is happening in countries not targeted by the Occupy protests (AFAIK anyway). If there's one fundamental concept that needs to be addressed it's the assumed need for economies to grow in order to remain "healthy", which encourages consumerism and requires resource use. It's basically a pyramid scheme that's nearing the point of collapse.

Just my 2 cents...

Things are LookingUp.... A photo from my back yard :-)

lyonrouge

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#567455 11-Jan-2012 16:56

So I've read more on what different people consider to be wrong, what do they want make it right?

Barter system? Solar panels and self contained waste water management systems? Or Maori sovereignty (based on the flags on Occupy camp site). What do you (the 1%) want from us (the 99%)?

listudio

196 posts

Master Geek

#567460 11-Jan-2012 17:13

Well, for a start, you can stop attributing things I never said and don't think to me.

Yes, there are problems. Yes I think power is extremely concentrated.

Do I think people with no organisation, no coherent agenda and often a bad attitude camping out in a few cities with placards are going to do anything about it? No. No I don't.

Well, if I said something offended you, I didn’t mean it.

I am here actually talking about the ideas and genuine purposes behind the social movements. Indeed some people might mess up around in the events, some don’t know how to address the issues and express their anger in a proper manner, or some are just simply pathetic. For me these are all understandable, but by no means define the value of the movements.

www.kenyasafariphotos.com

listudio

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#567479 11-Jan-2012 17:42

A 24 hr 7 days/week caged chicken may well fit in that life style and still has energy to peck at its fellows…what else can I say to you guys?

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Talkiet

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#567483 11-Jan-2012 17:46

listudio: A 24 hr 7 days/week caged chicken may well fit in that life style and still has energy to peck at its fellows…what else can I say to you guys?

Not sure really, but I'll guarantee you that analogies that abstract won't work.

Cheers - N

Please note all comments are from my own brain and don't necessarily represent the position or opinions of my employer, previous employers, colleagues, friends or pets.

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listudio

196 posts

Master Geek

#567571 11-Jan-2012 20:35

Not sure? really? Then try to pray 3 times of 'God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change; the courage to change the things I can; and the wisdom to know the difference'. It might work. Good luck! Cheers!

www.kenyasafariphotos.com

oxnsox

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#567631 11-Jan-2012 22:13

listudio: Not sure? really? Then try to pray 3 times of 'God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change; the courage to change the things I can; and the wisdom to know the difference'. It might work. Good luck! Cheers!

You are, I believe, missing Neils original point.
The Ocuppyers will achieve little by telling everyone they're doing it wrong... that'll just attract the miscreants and misfits who are against 'the-system', and too often they're a poor thinking militant lot.

If you want to change the financial systems you have to find the lever that'll make them want to change it. If you need an example of this look to the environmentalists. For years they warned of things nobody cared to do much about (except perhaps offer some lip service), but as soon as it affected them directly, financially, things start to happen.....

listudio

196 posts

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#567681 12-Jan-2012 00:28

You are, I believe, missing Neils original point.
The Ocuppyers will achieve little by telling everyone they're doing it wrong... that'll just attract the miscreants and misfits who are against 'the-system', and too often they're a poor thinking militant lot.

If you want to change the financial systems you have to find the lever that'll make them want to change it. If you need an example of this look to the environmentalists. For years they warned of things nobody cared to do much about (except perhaps offer some lip service), but as soon as it affected them directly, financially, things start to happen.....

My view is that people need to be more tolerant of each other, but be tough on government…that’s the message I got from the verse.

Our eyes may observe the negative images of the Occupiers, the angry faces, the dresses, the improper anti-social behaviours and poor speeches, but our mind shouldn’t judge them all as ‘miscreants’ or ‘misfits’. The messages they convey are not false, and in nature we are not different, we all have basic needs. You may have achieved your basic needs, but some haven’t. Nothing is personal, it is about the voices to be heard.

I have to admit that I am a little bit hypocritical as I won’t join them on the site in person. I understand them and appreciate the messages they brought out.

www.kenyasafariphotos.com

Talkiet

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#567685 12-Jan-2012 01:16

listudio: [snip]
Our eyes may observe the negative images of the Occupiers, the angry faces, the dresses, the improper anti-social behaviours and poor speeches, but our mind shouldn’t judge them all as ‘miscreants’ or ‘misfits’. The messages they convey are not false, and in nature we are not different, we all have basic needs. You may have achieved your basic needs, but some haven’t. Nothing is personal, it is about the voices to be heard.
[snip]

I utterly disagree... If someone acts angry, wears strange clothes, displays anti-social behaviours, makes unconvincing, poor, rambling speeches then I WILL judge them as a miscreant or a misfit.

To judge them any other way means you are not judging them on their actions.

"Honestly your honour, he's a good guy really, just don't judge him on those murders wot he did!"

It just doesn't matter how good a cause might be in theory (and I'm not saying this one is any good BTW), if it is represented by ranting whingers with incoherent demands / policies / wishes, then it's going nowhere.

One of the things I heard put forward was a 'maximum wage'... I mean, you only have to give that 30 seconds thought to realise anyone seriously postulating it doesn't have a clue.

Cheers - N

ps, 'wears strange clothes' is unfair - It only got included in my list as a point from your post. Wearing strange clothes is fine by me.

Please note all comments are from my own brain and don't necessarily represent the position or opinions of my employer, previous employers, colleagues, friends or pets.

MikeB4

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#567692 12-Jan-2012 07:19

Those people fouling the park in Wellington are against the people that work, pay taxes so they can draw a Benefit and spend months doing nothing and fouling a public park.

They hate the system but will take it's money.

One of the main qualifications for the Unemployment Benefit is that they are unemployed and are actively seeking employment. These people clearly are not meeting that requirement. Cancel their Benefits retrospectively, problem solved.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

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LookingUp

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#567708 12-Jan-2012 08:18

I totally agree with both Talkiet and KiwiNZ.

Things are LookingUp.... A photo from my back yard :-)

Cloudmelon

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#567715 12-Jan-2012 08:34

So seeing as we are near the subject of how the occupy movement seem to hate the people who have done well for themselves, thought I add some stats in - seeing stats are unbiased (unlike the majority of the protesters it seems.)

"His figures come from Finance Minister Bill English's office and are for the current year. They show the 160,000 households earning more than $150,000 a year are subsidising the rest of the country to the tune of $7.7 billion. This means 10 per cent of households are paying 70 per cent of taxes.

Coincidentally, the bottom 43.6 per cent of households (those earning less than $50,000) are receiving $7.7b in welfare payments, outweighing the tax they pay by almost $3b."

Source: http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/farming/6238037/Farm-licences-food-shortages-and-taxes

lyonrouge

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#567743 12-Jan-2012 09:28

This thread gas motivated me. It is important to stand up for what we believe in. I believe Occupy is at best, freedom camping, which I understand to be against council bylaws. I believe these laws should be respected, and where they are not, should be enforced. I'm going to stop commenting on this thread until I have actually done something. I'm off for more visits to town, I shall report back on my progress.

lyonrouge

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#567745 12-Jan-2012 09:30

Ps. I'm on annual leave, my actions, driven from my beliefs, are paid for by me.

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